THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING WORLD

I went to uni in Montreal, Quebec. Mostly, it wasn't too bad, but on St. Jean Baptiste Day, holy mackeral...they HATE us! And they have huge political clout here, given the size of the province, and it's population....I think the Quebec Seperatist thing has calmed down, but one never knows.

The October Crisis was perhaps the most famous conflict between Quebec and the rest of Canada. Thankfully, things have never been that bad since:

http://www.cbc.ca/millennium/timelines/feature_octobercrisis.html

Do they speak with forked tongue ?

Maybe it's similar in some ways to the Northern Ireland situation over here. Living in the north of England I have not been directly affected by the Troubles (the IRA targeted London & South East mainly) but there was enough on the news to worry anyone - kidnapping, torture, mutilation, murder, rape, drugs, bombs.

I cycled through Ireland in June (first visit to North or Rep.) and was surprsied at what is still there, and how much must have changed since the Good Friday Agreeement.

There are police stations with 20' wire fences, CCTV & watch-towers with bullet-proof windows, big 2-bladed Army choppers hovering for hours over towns and slogans everywhere.

I passed through mainly Loyalist/Protestant areas, and couldn't belive my eyes the first time I saw Union Jacks & 'God Save The Queen' painted on the roads & red/white/blue kerbstones. I have never seen 'God Save The Queen' painted on a road in England, nevermind anywhere else!

I've just realised I've wandered miles off-track here! There are other Brits in here (OAK springs to mind) who are probably older & wiser than me and will remember when it was really bad in the 60s & 70s.

Having said that, perhaps the Northen Ireland situation shows how two communities (the mainly Catholic Republicans and the Protestant Loyalists) could grow up alongside each other for decades, speak the same language, use the same schools, shops, hospitals etc. and even worshipping the same God & Christ and still not be able to find enough in common for them not to kill hundreds of each other over the years... If this is the case, then how can an English speaking world be anything other than a mental constuct?

Graham, my experiences of Ireland are in several fields.

In the 60s & 70s I worked as a freelance film editor on a number of BBC progs about the Irish/English conflict. The politics were very familiar to me.
During much of this time I drank in an Irish pub in Hanwell west London. No problems. I had several Irish friends.
My wife & I honeymooned in Southern Ireland in the late 70s. We were made to feel very welcome everywhere we went.

Throughout the Troubles I never heard a bad word from anyone in England about the Irish. I think we considered the lunatics in Ulster, Loyalists & Republicans to be a group of sewer rats who didn't reallly represen the majority of the general public.
Even the bombings that took place in London, Birmingham & other places didn't create a backlash that I was aware of.


My own opinion of Ireland is this.. It should be one country, not artificialy devided to suit extremists... The loyalists don't represent me as a British citizen

A propos of M. Cav, qui parle avec une langue divisée--I drove through Québec when coming back from a vaction in Maine two summers ago (we were on the way to eBeth's parents in Kingston). At a little gas station west of Montréal, near the border with Ontario, i filled up, and went inside to pay. Another gentleman approached the clerk.

<<Quel numéro?>> (meaning what pump number)

"Number three."

<<Ça fait quarante-deux dollars, c'est tout ça?>>

"Give me two litres of the motor oil that's on sale."

<<Bon, voilà . . . ça fait quarante-six, cinquante-huit . . . l'argent ou crédit?>>

"Credit, put on this card, please."

Both of these idiots spoke and understood the language of the other, both refused the simple courtesy of speaking the language of the other. I figure they deserve one another. As for me, i spoke French to the clerk, because i was still in Québec, it's their province, it's simple courtesy to speak the local language if you are able.

A silly, but significant resentment remains between the English-speaking and the French-speaking communities. I can only wonder at the feelings in Manitoba, where so many French-speakers were slaughtered in two uprisings.

I could hardly say that the French/English thing in Canada resembles the Irish problem....'Irish Lite' maybe, but not nearly as deep or as violent.

We have a friend in Northern Ontario who is part of a unique community: Franco-Ontarian. She teaches English to kids, and she is a great teacher. Franco-Ontarian is a unique language, some might call it 'Franglais', but it has it's own regional variations. They love the series of hockey movies made here: "Les Boys"

Cav - I've quickly learned in A2K to remember to add a caveat to any generalised sweeping statements I make!

Perhaps the Canadian situation is more like the English/Welsh thing, where they have dual language road-signs (Welsh/English in the heartlands, English/Welsh elsewhere), a Welsh language TV channel, and education in both languages. I believe there was a period where some Welsh nationalists firebombed holiday cottages belonging to rich English folk (possibly some fatalities?) but I haven't heard of anything recently. There are older folk living in Mid Wales who hardly speak any English. They now have some degree of independence in the form of the Welsh Assembly, but it remains to see how effective it will be at liberating them from the yolk of English tyranny!

Hey, Setanta. Sorry that I got caught up in a German chorale.

It used to be that Latin was a required course for all med students because it was classified as a universal language. That idea has been dead for sometime now.

It also used to be that German was a required course for all those seeking PhD's in Anthropology. I'm not certain if that is still true.

McTag, I did unravel the thread. trying to knit it up now with care.

So, if I catch this drift correctly, if it were not for British aggression, Hollywood films would be in Spanish. Spaghetti westerns would be better, then. (I know spaghetti is Italian, but they were Spanish films I think)
Or (I can feel Setanta building up a head of steam) if Henry VIII could have kept his pants up, England would still be catholic and Elizabeth I's sailors would not have been asked to attack the Spanish.
And so the English-speaking world would not have developed as it did.
Are we agreed?
My theory has left out the East India Company, for ease of assimilation and avoidance of awkward facts.

Facts is often awkward, so i avoid 'em like the plague . . .

Facts carch in your throat
Tax catch in your wallet
Wax clogs your ears
Sax are very loud
Are there any more pit falls ?

McTag - you've managed to say what I thought I was trying to say, but with about a tenth of the words! I bow to a master! You're not Welsh, by the way?

Graham of York, I blush.
The Welsh BTW never use one word when they can fit ten in. Neil Kinnock is only the tip of the Welsh iceberg, or am I thinking of Ursula Andress or Anita Ekberg. (Pleasant memories for the old stagers here)
Richard of York gives battle in vain, what's that?
And another thing: why has monosyllabic got five syllables?

Time for my medicine now.
You want to see a master, you want to see history explained, read Setanta. He's reining himself in at the moment.
"Look on my works, ye mighty, and dismay..."

C'mon master Setanta...inquiring minds want to know.

All I have to offer is that in Quebec, the signs are French-only, a dumbass law won by a fanatical political fight on the part of the more radical factions there.

There's an hilarious piece by a Montréal comedy group about the language police goin' to an English homestyle cookin' restaurant. The owner has to translate "toad in the hole," "bangers and mash," "spotted dick" -- great stuff, that . . .

Ha ha! I saw something similar....maybe it was the same group....had anglos chained up in a dungeon with the police trying to teach them the correct pronounciation of "tabernac"....

Nobody answered my question, nobody cares.
Now listen here, wall......

Richard of York gives battle in vain, are the non-Brits aware of that phrase? It's a mnemonic for the colours of the visible light spectrum, the colours of the rainbow.
ROYGBIV
Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet

Is that new to you?

McTag, mnemonic devices are not new to me, but that particular one was. Speaking of which, I still use this song as a way to remember the number of days in the months:

Thirty days has September
April, June, and November
All the rest have thirty one.
Except that quite contrary
February which has twenty eight most of the time.
Except in leap year twenty nine.

Letty - that little verse is the key to a 'you know you're tired when' anecdote. About six or seven years ago, a co-worker and I were in the office quite late on a Friday night. Simone came over to my desk, nearly in tears - could I please help her? Well, sure. She wanted to know if I knew the song you referenced. Mmm, i guess so. And did I know how to count it out on my knuckles? o.k. Great! Simone grabbed a pencil and a pad of paper and had me count the verse out on my knuckles while she wrote down the numbers. ? o.k. Then she added them all up.

What?

It seems Simone's brain had melted a few hours earlier, and this was the only way she could figure out how many days there were in a year.



Two university-educated, decently paid professionals. One set of knuckles. One pencil. One pad of paper. One camp song. You too can determine how many days in a year. OY!

ehBeth. Believe it or not, I also have a calendar and a date book. I just like that little song.

365 days in a year,
365 days
What would happen if one were lost,
We'd find it somewhere in a sphere.

Simone must be one interesting co-worker.