@neologist,
Quote:Hence, what might have amounted to a kazillion years were dismissed in a few paragraphs of Genesis, chapter 1. the creative days then being collapsed into a single day at Genesis 2:4. (There really is no basis for the protestations of the young earth creationists.)
Genesis is also a grand mix of Pagan mythology stemming from Egyptian to Babylonian creation myths. However, Genesis 1's creation order is the basis of young Earth's Creation because it begins with Earth. However that is just one problem with Genesis since what most don't understand is that Genesis is constructed around Creation in accordance to the day and night cycle.. Hence you can only actually make sense of it in this context to which I had explained here:
http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_news/2014/11/08/26568243-genesis-creation-and-science
Abstracted:
And thus I thought I would address this very argument:
Quote:As I stated in the beginning however, if you read Genesis it describes the Creation in much the same way scientists describe it now
As any of us can see, this makes me wonder if this person has actually ever read Genesis. It appears to be a blind assertion, a means to reconcile biblical narrative with modern science even though they are completely incompatible. Thus I ask for a bit of your time as I explain why the Creation myth in Genesis is not compatible with modern cosmology, and I will do this through simply reviewing what Genesis actually says in its narrative.. Thus in starting here, What is important to note here is that the only way Genesis makes sense is if you understand that Genesis is like a journal of observation over a period of 7 days in regards to the day and night cycle, an observation of how the Earth appears to be created out of the pitch black Darkness of the night . Hence to note, they didn't have light pollution back then, and the night was pitch dark, a void stretching over the surface of the deep. And so with that in mind, let us review Genesis day by day:
Reference:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1
Quote:Gen Day 1:
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1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the wat
Firstly, and to begin with, genesis starts with a claim that God created the Heavens and the Earth. We however, not oddly enough, can discount this claim just based on the narrative of the myth alone. Thus after that claim, Genesis starts with the existence of Earth as formless and void..., this makes no sense as an existing planet cannot be formless or void. However it does, and only makes sense in regards to the day night cycle. Furthermore, the phrase "the deep" in this era was most always inferred to the ocean or body of water. This is notable by the fact that Genesis here is stating "Darkness was over the surface of the deep". Hence at night, the Earth appears "Formless and empty", and "Darkness was over the "surface" of the "Deep".with the spirit of God hovering "over the waters" (a concept taken from preexisting pagan mythology).. hence to point, I know of no model of the Big Bang, or any model in cosmology in which "agrees with Genesis" here, but lets move on:
Quote:Gen Day 1 Part 2:
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And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
This is the break of Dawn, as in a time frame before the sun rises above the horizon. This is in where you have the separation of night and day, "Light from the Darkness". Hence the Day Night Cycle in where the light becomes the day, and the darkness becomes the night. Thus the observer was defining "there was evening, and there was morning". This is not consistent with the big bang theory, but rather a mythology of Earth's creation through the day and night cycle, a creation myth that had existed well before the writing of Genesis. Therefore this was what was perceived as "the first day", and therefore ending the first day of observation. So lets move on to the 2nd day:
Quote:Gen Day 2:
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And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
Here on the second day, the observer notes the differences between the sky and the surface of the water ("surface of the deep" ) at the break of dawn, as in there was "Morning". During the break of dawn you get the emergence and creation of the sky, or essentially the appearance of the separation of the Earth from the Sky vs when at night they appear as one. Basically to them, this is the separation from the waters above from the waters below. This remembering of course that this observation is likely taking place near a body of water to which is likely looking over the Mediterranean sea. It is also important to note that since rain comes from the vault of the heavens, it was common belief that the firmament contained water, and in a way the sky does, but unfortunately not in the context they are describing here. This interpretation is further stressed in Part 2 of Day 2 of Genesis:
Quote:
Gen Day 2 Part 2:
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9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
Once again at the break of dawn, and as darkness lifts, The water appears to gather into one place and differentiate from the ground. And thus as above, separating the waters from above and the waters below. With the exception of the added step and observation that as the sun rises, the waters below appear to gather from the darkness, and that land appears to rise from the deep. Thus the gathering waters is called "seas", and the rising dry ground called "land". Here the observer is again likely looking at the sea, and likely the Mediterranean. This day night cycle is again further supported in Day 3:
Quote:Gen Day 3:
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11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
It is now on the mourning of the 3rd Day, the observer notes the appearance of vegetation.. This is logical giving again that at the break of dawn, and when the darkness lifts, among the first things you see appear from the darkness isn't just the separation of waters, water gathering into one place, or the illusion of rising dry land, but also the appearance of the vegetation. Any early morning fisherman would understand this sort of observation. Hence You begin to see the trees and vegetation come from out of the void of darkness, and thus ending the 3rd day of observation. You may think this as consistent with science on the big bang, but it's not, and Day 4 really kills any hope of that:
Quote:
Gen Day 4:
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14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
This definitively tells you that this creation myth is based on the observation of the day night cycle. Hence the Earth didn't exist before the Sun, or Stars, and you can't have vegetation, light, or the morning before the existence of the Sun. It isn't till here that The Sun, Moon, and Stars are placed into the Sky. Thus it only makes sense in the context of an observer that after the break of dawn, the observer notes the rise of the Sun above the horizon, and the Moon at night with the stars that soon follow as darkness begins to take as dusk approaches. Also, the moon isn't a light, and can often be seen in broad day. This brings us to Day 5, and observation that as the day rises, life seems to come teaming alive in a logical order of the observed day night cycle:
Quote:
Gen Day 5:
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And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day
Again we have observation of the transition from the evening to the mourning of the Day 5, taking note after the observation of the rise of the vegetation, fish, animals, and us. In the mourning as the Sun Rises, you begin to see the ocean team with life, the sky full of birds such as seagulls looking to get their early catch.. It's notable that many of these people were fisherman who got up bright and early to fish, and are aware of this appearing emergence of life as the sun rises. And it thus makes sense of the order we see given with the fish and the birds first appearing.. Day 6 of course continues this logical order..:
Quote:
Gen Day 6:
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4 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
This continuing from the previous observation, we note that most other animals become noticed after the trees, fish, and birds as mourning nears the afternoon. Thus other animals being usually active before most people, we see that people appear last and generally after as to rise and rule over them.. And thus the creation myth based on the day night cycle. So without need to mental gymnastics or apologetics, we can simply use commonsense and read comprehension to figure out how they thought the Earth and the Universe was created. It's just unfortunate for them that they were wrong.. However, I cannot blame them for being wrong giving that to an observer in those time periods, and the limits of their tools of observation or access to data, it would agreeably seem as so. Hence I probably myself would have believed it so if I were not born here in the 21st century. This doesn't mean there wasn't intelligence involved in the Big Bang, it just means it most surely didn't happen this way.
