Electric car charging at the condo outlet: who pays?

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Thomas wrote:
As you see, the map shows that typical prices are about double what I just calculated. That's well within the range of plausibility if you account for possible overnight rebates, and for the general fudge factor of such bottom-of-the-envelope calculations.

After cross-checking with Sozobe's link, I noticed I forgot that hybrid cars generate only half their power through electricity. If you account for that half, the prices match almost exactly. No more need to account for any fudge factors, or even for overnight rebates.

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@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

http://www.fortisalberta.com/Default.aspx?cid=359&lang=1
According to the site above a block heater using:
1000 kw for 30 days @ 12 a day will use 360 KWh for $54.00 p/month
600 kw for 30 days @ 12 a day will use 218 KWh for 32.40 p/month.
http://www.infosecisland.com/blogview/9908-Electric-Cars-Identities-and-Peak-Saver-Programs.html

“When plugged into a standard 120-volt socket, the electric car will draw 1,500 watts. By comparison, a medium-sized air conditioner or a countertop microwave oven will draw about 1,000 watts."
At this rate, according to the calculator it would cost about $81.00 for a month of similar use as the block heaters, in Edmonton. We also have plug-ins at most offices and homes.

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@Ceili,

I agree that the estimate is correct. I'm suggesting that he get empirical data that compares his car versus a traditional gasoline powered vehicle.

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@Ragman,

Yes, $35 per month for electricity.
In Canada, most condo's is normally an apartment styled unit, they don't have a garage, a parking garage - maybe. If you're lucky enough to get a spot, it usually comes with a two plug electrical outlet. That's pretty standard up here because of block heaters, sometimes the outlet is shared between two parking spots, so you essentially only get one plug.
Some buildings are really bitchy even about changing tires or cleaning a vehicle. Unless you live in a row house type condo, access to your own electric would be impossible, especially if you lived on the say, the 25th floor...
Again, a meter is overkill, anyone can do the math. He's already offered money at the top amount of what it would cost. They've refused.. This problem is not going to go away. There are more and more of these vehicles on the road everyday.. Ok, not in Alberta.. lol but in most places.

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@DrewDad,

I'm not sure I understand. What difference would that make?
I'm sure he could take his car and a friends car and get them tested, his battery against their battery warmer and block heater, but from the math I've done, based on the site listed, there is no way he's using more power than the conventional block heater, used by the typical Canadian in January.

My suggestion would be to go solar... Solve all the problems and he could get a rebate from the condo ass. for his non use of power.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

The question that springs to my mind: why wouldn't those who have hybrids or electric cars, just charge their cars in their own garage or theuir own property's electric outlet? Are there no garage spots on their property? If not in a garage, then in their car port which would then have its own connection to owner property's kw meter that measure their own usage.

Let me guess: you've never lived in a condo, right?

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@joefromchicago,

I think maybe your utility would serve up some charging stalls with dollar slots at no cost to your condo homeowners. We have such a service down at the beach and its geared for those with the "plug in" cars. You gotta know how many Kw' youre gonna use. (Actually I dont know how it is calculated , all I know is that people slip dollars into the slot and they have 3 charging stations .

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@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

I'm not sure I understand. What difference would that make?

Most people are scared of math, so if you go to them with an "estimate" they don't trust it.

Get a Kill-A-Watt ($30-40)
Run it on his car overnight.
Run it on a neighbor's car overnight.

Multiply results by electric rate, then take the result to the condo board. Call it "real-world, empirical data" and they'll have a whole different perception.

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Block heaters? Battery blankets? It's a different world!

Perhaps he could charge it at work?

Good question, though.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

You'd be wrong. I have lived in a condo (t/h) for 2 years. My condo experience apparently differs from yours and possibly the OP.

What clearly has to happen is condo associations and other properties with communal property have to get cuaght up with current forms of automotive technology. Wish they could all install solar powered charging stations.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

But how are electricity costs assessed?

I would just count the number of battery reloads. According to Sozobe's link a few pages earlier, a Chevy Volt battery holds 12 kilowatt hours. I would imagine that those batteries are standardized across brands. (They already are in conventional cars.) So, multiply those 12 kilowatt hours with the cost of a kilowatt hour (8.4 cents in Illinois) and be done with it. Of course, actually measuring the amount of energy would be more precise. But it wouldn't be worth the extra cost of $3,000 for the meter.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Ok, yeah you're right. Math is kinda like witch craft to some people for sure.. I doubt if these people could comprehend either sets of data though, they seem pretty stuck in the mud. The future probably scares the bejeebers out of them.

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@Thomas,

If they hold that much power, he probably only needs to charge once a week, on average.

1 Reply

@margo,

I was trying to find a photo of this wonderful phenomenon, but could only find this

Quote:

Comfort Inn Timmins is conveniently located close to restaurants, attractions, golf courses and skiing, and is just a short drive to our shopping district. We are a Snowmobiling Paradise located just off the trails! We offer a Free Comfort Sunshine Breakfast, free parking for cars and coaches with winter plug ins, free wireless internet and free local calls.

http://www.kayak.com/Timmins-Hotels.Comfort_Inn.16240.ksp

more important that internet or phone calls - we've got winter plug ins!

two for each vehicle (I've stayed at this location a few too many times)

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

If they hold that much power, he probably only needs to charge once a week, on average.

Actually, I got one recharge per day in my bottom-of-the-envelope calculation:

50 kW motor power,
multiplied by one hour, the length of a typical commute and back,
divided by two, because the motor isn't typically running full-power all the time,
divided by two, because hybrid cars generate half their energy by combustion. Only the other half comes out of the battery.

This amounts to 12.5 kilowatt hours of electricity a day---almost the same as the capacity of a Chevy Volt battery, which is 12 kilowatt.

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@Thomas,

So, at a buck and a quarter (my rates are 9 cents a kwh) theyd make something. At 2 bucks a charge, the condo would have an incentive to have more plug-ins around the ground level

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@Thomas,

I, admittedly, didn't do the math for the duration the battery would last. I assumed it would be a much longer ride. What a useless vehicle. I think I'll wait a while till I pick one up, that amount of power would hardly take me across town and back.
I'm designing my trailer and trying to decide on the batteries/solar panel ratio at the moment or buy a generator. I'm leaning toward solar as it's quieter, easily replenished. Surprisingly, a generator is almost the same cost.

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@ehBeth,

Thanks, Bethie

I have seen such things in Sweden (not operating - you don't think I'm going to be there when it's cold enough to use them, do you???)

Living here - you just forget that there are such places where you actually have to make such special allowances for the cold.

Mind you, if it doesn't stop bloody raining here soon - we'll have to investigate webbed feet or similar Confused

Years of drought - followed by floods!

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@Ceili,

It's not useless because the combustion engine would give your car a decent reach. But I agree that the electrical part is more of a gimmick than a real asset.

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@Ceili,

a solar cahrger for your trailer roof is an easy install. You can run your hot water heaters ignitor, your lights (all are 24v yes?) and your space heater blower (again 24v yes/). Tv and radios need to be battery and frig is gas too (solar harge your 12V deepcycle batteries in the underneath or on the hitch (wherever they lie).
We getaway with 4 panels at 125$ each and we can be without power and any hookups for about 2 weeks, then we run outta gas and we need to fill the tanks with water (course we gotta find a sewer to dump the toidy roller cart. DRy docking is fun cause we can get out into some very neat places where no campers (except the ones with solar panels and/or gennies) can go

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Electric car charging at the condo outlet: who pays?

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