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Electric car charging at the condo outlet: who pays?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 07:44 am
@Thomas,
Uhm . . . you haven't been payhing attention lately?

Ceili's Canada Thread
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 07:46 am
@Setanta,
No I haven't. Thanks!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:13 am
I liked your butter tart schtick . . . that was a sly dig.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:18 am
@joefromchicago,
This has come up where I live....but I think I'm the only one who noticed it. There was a guy charging his electric motorbike at the outlet in the carpark.

To be honest, it kind of pissed me off, but I decided the amount was so small that it was petty to make anything of it and, if electric vehicles are less polluting (I'm actually not sure if they are or not) I want to encourage them.

I think it'd be fair to get an informed and agreed assessment of the extra electricity costs and and for the guy to pay.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:19 am
@ehBeth,
What's a block heater?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:21 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
if electric vehicles are less polluting (I'm actually not sure if they are or not) I want to encourage them.

I don't think you can answer that with a general "yes" or "no". It depends on the nature of the power plants generating your electrical power.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:23 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
I think it really comes down to a fairness issue. The condo association doesn't pay for anybody else's gas, why should it pay for this guy's electricity?

Because it pays for anybody else's electricity, and doesn't care how people use that electricity.


Huh? How so? In my building we pay our electricity costs individually in our own places. The strata fees cover electrical use in common areas for lights and such.

The power outlets in the car parks are meant for the cleaners and any maintenance work done in common areas, not for people to get fuel for their cars.

There's places where individual unit electricity use comes out of the communal funds?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:28 am
@dlowan,
Yes. Joefromchicago already corrected me on that.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:35 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Yeah, that's what gets me. I don't know how much it costs to charge an electric car, but I know anytime you use electricity to generate heat, that takes a lot of energy. So the condo association has no problem with residents using the common outlets for block heaters, but balks at them using common outlets as charging stations. I wonder if residents without cars are given a rebate to reflect the fact that they shouldn't be paying for heating the other residents' car engines.


Oh....that makes a difference. I had no idea that communal electricity would be used for private purposes.

If I didn't have a block heater I sure as hell wouldn't be wanting to pay for someone who did.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:47 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

What's a block heater?

http://www.carfinderservice.com/car-advice/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Use-block-heater.jpg
Block heater
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 10:25 am
@joefromchicago,
dlowan, it's for cold-cold places. There used to be something like that in MN when I was growing up, but I haven't had to deal with it in a while. (Basically, keeping your car warm enough that it will start in the morning.)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 10:51 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
I wonder if residents without cars are given a rebate to reflect the fact that they shouldn't be paying for heating the other residents' car engines.


They're (generally) not paying for costs related to common parking areas.

Here (downtown Toronto), the parking spots are usually bought separately from the condo unit and there are costs levied related to maintenance of the garage that go only to the owners of the parking spots. If people have outside spots, they'd already have access to outlets for the block heaters and battery blankets (in Ottawa, they'd probably use both in a cold winter).
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 10:54 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Thomas wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
I think it really comes down to a fairness issue. The condo association doesn't pay for anybody else's gas, why should it pay for this guy's electricity?

Because it pays for anybody else's electricity, and doesn't care how people use that electricity.


Huh? How so? In my building we pay our electricity costs individually in our own places.


this is still somewhat unusual here. Becoming more common, but there are still quite a few buildings where the units aren't individually metered.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 11:25 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Here (downtown Toronto), the parking spots are usually bought separately from the condo unit and there are costs levied related to maintenance of the garage that go only to the owners of the parking spots. If people have outside spots, they'd already have access to outlets for the block heaters and battery blankets (in Ottawa, they'd probably use both in a cold winter).

But how are electricity costs assessed? Clearly, in the Ottawa case, the outlets running to the parking spaces aren't individually metered (that's the whole point of the story), so there must be some kind of sharing arrangement. Presumably, everybody pays the same amount for a parking space, and everybody with a parking space pays a portion of their fees for electricity. So it's still a situation where everybody pays for everybody's electricity usage -- it's just that it's everybody with a parking space paying for everybody's usage of the electric outlets that are located at each parking space.

I imagine that a fully electric car doesn't need a block heater, since there are no liquids in the engine that can freeze. So the guy with the electric car would actually be using less electricity to charge his car than some guy using a block heater to heat his internal combustion engine. He should be the one complaining about everybody else's profligate use of electricity.

I'll just add that none of this applies to my situation. We don't pay extra for our parking spaces -- they're assigned one to a unit. And our lot doesn't have any electric outlets except for the one that's on the side of the building. It gets cold around here in the winter, but not Canada cold.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 11:29 am
@joefromchicago,
Dude needs to get a Kill-A-Watt meter, and then show the relative cost of a block heater versus charging his car.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:15 pm
I already put up a comparison, on the previous page. What I didn't factor in, was how long the car takes to charge. Or if the car ran everyday till it's last bit of power was drained or if he only took it to work and back. I highly doubt his car would need to be plugged in more than half the time of a block heater. I'm also assuming all the info he needed came with the car to figure out the Wattage on 120v power and how long it would take to charge the battery. A meter would be redundant if anyone with half a brain did the math. It looks like his estimate of $35 is probably correct.

dlowen.. A block heater keeps the oil pan from freezing. It doesn't stop gas or the battery from freezing, a separate heater/blanket can be used for the battery. Most people up here, use a block heater around the clock in really bad weather, of which we've only had 1 1/2 weeks this year. It's been a very odd year, across the country.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:28 pm
@Ceili,
Just out of curiosity is that cost you quoted based on what sort of interval? 35 per month?

As far as the issue of OP goes, with the condo rules I've experienced (US) the common areas are not used for personal devices electronic devices. the common property outlets are meant for the maintenance people to landscape or maintain.

The question that springs to my mind: why wouldn't those who have hybrids or electric cars, just charge their cars in their own garage or theuir own property's electric outlet? Are there no garage spots on their property? If not in a garage, then in their car port which would then have its own connection to owner property's kw meter that measure their own usage.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:29 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
So it's still a situation where everybody pays for everybody's electricity usage -- it's just that it's everybody with a parking space paying for everybody's usage of the electric outlets that are located at each parking space.

I imagine that a fully electric car doesn't need a block heater, since there are no liquids in the engine that can freeze. So the guy with the electric car would actually be using less electricity to charge his car than some guy using a block heater to heat his internal combustion engine. He should be the one complaining about everybody else's profligate use of electricity.


precisely.

The people without electric cars are likely to be using block heaters/battery blankets in an Ottawa winter - and using more electricity than the guy with the Volt.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:29 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
Let me see if it's easy to google...

This seems to confirm that about a dollar a day is reasonable:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5610.html
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:31 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
As you see, the map shows that typical prices are about double what I just calculated. That's well within the range of plausibility if you account for possible overnight rebates, and for the general fudge factor of such bottom-of-the-envelope calculations. I believe that this one-dollar-a-night figure is probably true.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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