Thems fightin' words

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

This is so general that it's hard to answer.

I definitely think there are times when you just have to keep trying (which I guess could be called "toughing it out") because the end result is so beneficial.

Like, sozlet is having a devil of a time learning how to ride a bike w/o training wheels. Every time she tries she ends up getting banged up a bit, sometimes banged up a lot. But that's the process. She's gonna have to keep trying, and keep getting banged up -- which is far from pleasant -- 'cause at the end of all of that trying, she's going to be able to ride her bike, and that will rock.

If she gives up because the banged-up part is too depressing, she'll never learn how to ride her bike.

But then there's a certain bloody-minded tenacity that can be its own problem. I have this terrible tendency (which I recognized a few years ago and have taken conscious steps to counteract) to make something "worth it." As in, if I've put a certain amount of time or energy or money into something, I hate to step away even if it's spiralling downwards -- I want to bring things through to the other side, make all of that time or energy or money "worth it." (This has been especially true with volunteering efforts.) It was really liberating when I stopped trying to make every single thing "worth it."

So I guess that could be part of it -- is the current stuck-ness realistically going to lead to some benefit down the line?

As for fighting words, I know there are some but I can't think of any. I tend to get into fight mode on others' behalf more easily than my own.

Hmmmmm indeed.

Okay, for instance....

Does sozlet want to keep trying or is she ready to give it up?

I bought Mo some heelies (those skate shoes) and he became insanely frustrated by them. We've put them away for a bit. Every once in a while he decides he's ready to try them again (usually after seeing someone using them).

I guess that's what I mean by always other options.

Maybe you quit a job or drop out of a class or specialize in something.

Like for me -- I got frustrated by colleges that required classes that I didn't want to pay to take so I found a school that didn't require such things.

Or like when I was starting out as a photographer and I took any job that came my way. I had some horrid jobs of photographing accident victims for attorneys. The pay was good but I HATED it so I just quit.

My old veterenarian decided that even after all that school and all that investment she just wasn't happy being a veteranarian so she quit.

At what point does "tough it out" become counter productive?

She wants to keep trying.

(Is this about school? My main point was more that I don't think there's any blanket answer, and if it's about school I'd rather talk about school than finding more examples of when I DO think "stick with it" is important.)

I bring that up because I think that the concept of "tough it out" when it comes to school isn't even the way to think about it, at all. I mean even if it's that school is not fun now but the decision has been to stay rather than move, telling the kid to tough it out isn't going to help. I think it needs to be approached from other angles. Finding out what he DOES like, playing that up. Being positive and proactive about it, yourself. Working with professionals there. Working to enrich the school. (If they don't have a garden, maybe you can spearhead one.)

Anyway, I don't know if that's what's behind this so I won't get into that too much. It's the blanket that bothers me. (A-ha! Generalizations are fighting words for me! ;-))

Re: Thems fightin' words


When a loved one is sick and dying, and you're holding vigil, and all you want to do is run as far away as possible, but you can't run away so you have to tough it out.

Right off the top of my head, tough it out becomes counter productive when in an abusive relationship. How many women stayed married to men who beat the **** out of them regularly because their mother's told them to tough it out?

life makes you have to tough it out.... life in general

(By the way, my point there if it IS about school is not that I think he should stay where he is; it sounds like moving to the other school could well be very good for him. I don't really have a strong opinion about that one way or another yet. Just, if it IS about school, I don't think the "tough it out" concept is useful -- that even if it's decided for whatever reason that it's better for him to stay at the current school, it shouldn't be for "tough it out" reasons per se and definitely shouldn't be presented to him that way.)

It isn't about school.

There are some people who decide life isn't worth toughing out.

And there are a lot of people who run away from tough situations.

eoe, the abusive marriage things is a great example of when toughing it out is a terrible idea.

This all started floating through my head this morning when Mr. B and I had a discussion about "toughing it out".

It's funny because I have quite a bit more stick-to-it-iveness than he does. I think it's because I choose carefully and don't get "stuck". I continue to do something because I derive pleasure from it.

He, on the other had, doesn't stick to things nearly as long as I do -- but has a "tough it out" philosophy about things.

I'm usually the pessimist. He's usally the optimist.

His little tough it out rant this morning just made me start thinking about "stuckness" and how it shapes our lives.

Hmmm ... are you sure it's an optimist/pessimist divide? Extremely broadly speaking (everyone please note the disclaimer), I find that personalities usually fall into one of 3 categories -- the operations person, the sales person, or the administrative person. "Tough it out" sounds like something coming from administrative types, those ace delegators. Whereas, someone who gets satisfaction from doing something, from problem solving (which means considering the negative aspects thoroughly) tends to be an operations person.

Sorry, I'm digressing. I ditto eoe's post.

Oh, I just thought of some "fightin' words" for me:

"Consider it a challenge"

I've heard this so many times in my life, mostly in work but occasionally in general life situations. I've come to consider it to mean "Here's a near impossible situation. Do something, and if what you do is not a miracle, we can say that you just weren't up for the challenge."

Much like "Tough it out".

"Nevermind" and "I don't want to talk about it"

Put up your dukes...

Oh my gosh, Tico. I think you're on to something! I have always described myself as a worker bee -- give me a task I am suited for and I will happily drone about forever.

Mr. B is certainly administrative. Sometimes he'll call me and start barking out "orders" and I'll reply "I DON'T WORK FOR YOU!" That always serves to remind him who he's talking to.

"Consider it a challenge" -- I can see where that would do it. I worked (briefly) at a place where simply getting up in the morning and dealing with the sorority sisters (as I called them) was a challenge. If they'd ever said that to me I probably would have burned down the building.

stuh, being a heterosexual woman I have never had those words directed towards me -- we all know that only women are allowed to direct that sentence to their lover but I may be able to shed some light on why we say it:

When "I don't want to talk about it" it is because I know that I'm not being completely rational about the situation and that whatever comes out of my mouth is only going to make me feel worse. We (me) don't say it to snub you but because we already feel bad and can't stand the thought of feeling worse.

But "I don't want to talk about it" can be a perfectly reasonable response!

Perhaps not in a romantic relationship, when something is obviously bothering one partner, when "I will talk about it later" might be a better option.

However, in friendships, I have certain people to whom I will say "I don't want to talk about it"...probably not about matters to do with the friendship, but here's a for instance:

I have a friend whose "thing" is to do this endless, indefatigable interrogation about something you have done or said, that she thinks is not rational enough...like when I mention I have put off going to the dentist, as an example.


I KNOW that is irrational.....I understand why I do it, and I WILL go to the dentist as soon as other things have settled down..(I am dental phobic, and if I am really stressed about other stuff, I may put hold off on another very stressful thing that can wait, so I don't get myself too wound up...feh, I know...but I have had to manage my temperament for a long time)...what I know will serve no purpose except to get me annoyed is a long discussion about how dumb that is. So, I don't have the discussion.

"I don't want to discuss it, and you know why" is my usual response.


And she DOES know.


But I understand how those words can be a rage inducer.

"I don't want to talk about it" means one of three things.

1. I don't want to talk about it because I haven't figured out how to verbalize it yet.
OR
2. I'm sick of talking about it.
OR
3. I don't want to talk about it WITH YOU.

The best answer to "tough it out," and basically to everything, my mantra, what keeps me going:

F*** it.

What? You mean women KNOW when they are being irrational?? Can I get some corroboration on this please? This may be important.

Reading this I was reminded of a scene I witnessed a few months ago. My husbands' cousins' family came by the house for a visit while my oldest stepson was over. He had an x-box or whatever the latest video game thingamabob is and cousins' son, who is about 22 years old, and the source of major worry for his parents?-he hasn't finished school, he'll quit a job at the drop of a hat before finding a new one, there's just a basic lack of responsibility there while he waits for the world to give him something, without working for it or earning it, just because he's here.

Anyway, the young man seemed excited to try the game out, said that he'd been wanting to, and played for about a minute, maybe two, with my stepson giving him directions until finally, he got huffy and threw the controls to the side, giving up, saying that it was just too frustrating. And that's when it all became crystal clear. The root of his problem. Always looking for the easy way, anything that challenges him is too much of a hassle and he kicks it to the curb. He doesn't know the meaning of the term "tough it out" because he's never toughed anything out and that's when you have to look at the parents, who, more than likely, made everything so easy-breezy for this kid and never insisted that he finish anything or take on any challenges. Now they're wringing their hands, terrified that they've raised a useless slug who's going to be dependent upon them forever.

Boomerang, sozobe, DON'T DO THAT.

Yes.

Men usually don't realize when they're being irrational. Women are generally more self-aware, especially when it comes to emotions.

So it must be that they (women) just choose not to explain themselves?

That's kind of irrational.