Unsolicited Sales Pitches/ How Do YOU Relate To Them?

Region Philbis wrote:

i say try it.

maybe you'll enjoy it, thus improving your overall health and well-being... which could conceivably add the lost time, plus more, to your life span...

Will it make my complexion glow and remove the warts off my hands?

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I don't have a land line, so no cold calls to me.

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yes, all that and MORRRRRRE... (lets watch!)

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I liked this, posted by BBB:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=92272&highlight=

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Eva wrote:

Geez, you guys sure are an angry lot!

I just say, "I'm not interested, but thank you for calling" and hang up.

I smile at salespeople in stores and say, "No thank you, just looking" then turn around and walk the other way.

Must be a southern thing.

When I was in France a few years ago, the rules were different. A store is considered something like an extension of the shopkeeper's home. When you enter, it is customary to greet the shopkeeper and compliment his or her shop. Same as you would do if you walked into someone's home. A few pleasantries, then they leave you alone to browse. Americans, who are famous for assuming the whole world works (or should work) the way their country does, are understandably considered very rude when they walk in, ignore the shopkeeper, and refuse to talk with them. Frankly, I preferred the French way. It seemed very civilized to me.

But then, I was raised by salespeople. I am never rude to them unless they are rude to me first. (Offering to help is not rude...some people walk in the door looking for help.)

I think that is a great custom. I believe that much of the rudeness from the customer side stems from experiencing busy sales people. It is fine if you exchange a few pleasantries and then are left alone, however, in some circumstances the sales person will push or watch your every step.

And personally I don't think it is a "southern thing" as most people when approached by a sales person do similar as you state. It is only when pushed or followed that people do otherwise.

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Here's something I've always wondered about...

The salesman who is SO pushy he/she must know they are ruining any potential for a sale.

These are the ones that leave a bad taste in my mouth that will extend to the good salespeople who really ARE trying to make sure you get what you need.

Some sectors are notorious about being pushy to the point of being obnoxious, a partial list being gyms, used cars, cable TV people, recruiters (yes recruiters, they don't do a damn thing I can't do myself).

For me, it seems so counterproductive, do they think I'm going to buy their product/service after they have been treating me as if I'm stupid? What? Like to prove them wrong?

Does this work with other customers? It's like "You are pissing me off SO much, I'll show you! I'm going to buy your stuff"

Any opinions?

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Chai wrote:

Here's something I've always wondered about...

The salesman who is SO pushy he/she must know they are ruining any potential for a sale.

These are the ones that leave a bad taste in my mouth that will extend to the good salespeople who really ARE trying to make sure you get what you need.

Some sectors are notorious about being pushy to the point of being obnoxious, a partial list being gyms, used cars, cable TV people, recruiters (yes recruiters, they don't do a damn thing I can't do myself).

For me, it seems so counterproductive, do they think I'm going to buy their product/service after they have been treating me as if I'm stupid? What? Like to prove them wrong?

Does this work with other customers? It's like "You are pissing me off SO much, I'll show you! I'm going to buy your stuff"

Any opinions?

Many recruiters can be pushy and that is why I stated I help certain ones (the professional ones that have been in it for quite a while). At least in the Boston market, a good recruiter can do tons more than an individual looking for a job. They already have a relationship with the hiring people at companies. They know when a job becomes available and they usually get you in quicker than if you send a resume alone.

Some companies do not post openings in the paper. Some strictly go through recruiting companies to help weed out tons of useless resumes. I have an excellent example of what can happen to a resume - even one sent with a reference and a particular job opening. I sent my resume for a particular job on the reference of some one else. A few weeks later, I had an appointment with a recruiter. A day later they set me up with an interview with the same company - I got the job. About a month or two after working there, I get a phone call from HR asking if I was still interested in the job that I was currently working at.

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In truth, I was talking about my take on recruiters as the hiring party.

In my experience, recruiters do little more than shove resumes at you, and I mean ANY resume that comes across their desk.

I have received resumes from recruiters that go on about what a great canditdate this is, only to read it and see they have absolutely no experience in the field they are seeking.

On another occasion, I received a resume that came with glowing remarks, only to immediately recognize the name as a person we had terminated previously, we are firm Do Not Rehire!

I've been working where I am for 10 years now, and in all that time, we have NEVER, not once, had a hire that came from a recruiter last even a year. Plus, I've had them many times outright lie to me.

Also, guess what I used to do for about 3 years when I was in my early 30's?

Yep, and hated every minute of it. The money was good, but I went home at night feeling like a fraud.

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I don't have call display, but hang up when it becomes obvious that it's a sales call. I have to be careful though, as I do do surveys for money on the phone and on the internet. Also, I do focus groups which pay very well. Often around $75 for a couple of hours.

At the door, it gets closed pretty quick if we're not sure who it is and we don't want to talk to them. Otherwise, we don't answer the door.

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Chai wrote:

In truth, I was talking about my take on recruiters as the hiring party.

In my experience, recruiters do little more than shove resumes at you, and I mean ANY resume that comes across their desk.

I have received resumes from recruiters that go on about what a great canditdate this is, only to read it and see they have absolutely no experience in the field they are seeking.

On another occasion, I received a resume that came with glowing remarks, only to immediately recognize the name as a person we had terminated previously, we are firm Do Not Rehire!

I've been working where I am for 10 years now, and in all that time, we have NEVER, not once, had a hire that came from a recruiter last even a year. Plus, I've had them many times outright lie to me.

Also, guess what I used to do for about 3 years when I was in my early 30's?

Yep, and hated every minute of it. The money was good, but I went home at night feeling like a fraud.

That is a headhunter! There is definately a huge difference between a professional recruiter and a head hunter! They may have the same job title, could even work for the same recruiting firm, but they are definately different animals.

We also hire using recruiting firms. I am a product of being hired from such a firm - and I have never left a job within a year - not even close. The majority of the people we hire through recruiting companies last well over a year. There is little difference between hiring via recruiting company and other sources in my industry and length of stay/performance and I have worked in the industry for for over 15 years.

Could be the type of industry or could be the area of the country - I have heard different things about recruiters depending on the area of the country people live in.

In any case, the key is to find a professional recruiter and work with him/her only. I have two that I like that act professional and as a result I help them when I can and they help me.

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The last time I got a sales call that I really enjoyed, it was some guy from Verizon trying to sell me some **** I don't want. As soon as he started speaking, I just started talking gibberish, like so....

"Gills, dog carp!? Orange scoop froggies, ffffffllllllounder! FFFFFllllounder, Fffffllllounder!!!! Marshmallow! Carrot? Orangutan?--"

Click.

Damn that was fun.

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ok

what about the rest of my question, sans recruiters?

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Chai wrote:

ok

what about the rest of my question, sans recruiters?

I'd just add any car sales people, however, the used ones just seem more icky.

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Linkat wrote:

Chai wrote:
ok

what about the rest of my question, sans recruiters?

I'd just add any car sales people, however, the used ones just seem more icky.

*nods* Maybe Slappy can explain this but I always get the impression that used car sales people try to confuse the carp out of the customer so that the customer gets to the point where their head is so messed up they buy the car because, knowing they are confused, they don't want to look stupid.

It's one of those things where they flood you with crap and jump from item to item so that you can't focus and then you get to a point of vulnerability and they hit you with the pitch. Then you don't want to look stupid and they still sound like they know what they are talking about so you just go with it and the next thing you know you have a piece of crap cara dn a hugh monthly payment to make.

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Before buying a used car, I took this book out from the library. It was all about tacits used by used and new car sales people. It was written by a car salesman. Granted the book was focused on extreme and worst offenders, but it gave me great insight and prepared me so I wouldn't fall for these tactics. It even gave suggestions on how you can turn things in your favor.

The funny thing was I went to one place and the guy that tried to sell to me fit the worst case perfectly. I was quite amused when he pulled out the exact same paper that the book showed and how they jump you from one quadrant of the paper to another (one selling price of the car, one trade in, one financing and I can't remember the other). Whenever you start low balling them, they jump to another area trying to confuse you.

I left and ended up buying from a dealer (used) that was recommended to me. They were much more upfront and not so much playing around stuff.

So I guess even in car sales there are some that aren't as shady.

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When I sold cars it was far from the biggest rip-off industry I worked in. In college I worked at Hertz at the airport a couple summers and would absolutely f*ck people over. It's summer time, the Smith family comes in, "oh, you have a reservation for a mid-sized car, and you have 3 kids with luggage? A minivan? That'll be an extra $99 a day." (on top of the $40-50 rate) "That's too much? A full-sized car will be an extra $80. Take your pick." We had full reign on how much to charge an for upgrades, and made commission on it.

The used car lot actually wasn't bad at all. For one, it was pretty hard to get ripped off, since even our window prices were usually much lower than cars at a new car dealer. Unfortunately, I don't know how to "confuse" people into buying. And people in general suck, you get a lot of lying scumbag customers too...plenty will come in and jerk you around by test driving cars they have zero interest in buying.

The people who paid too much were generally those with awful credit who only cared about getting approved, and rarely negotiated price. Usually not the brightest people.

The best customers were the ones who educated themselves before coming in. Even if they were tough negotiators, the process could be made very pleasant. If you're making a purchase as large as an auto, and you think you "paid too much," it's your stupidity for not doing your homework. You know the key to buying a used car? Research the prices for what you want to buy, know your financing options/limits before visiting dealers, and once you pick a car get a 3rd party car inspection before taking delivery.

I'm glad I don't sell cars anymore because the retail customer sucks. Selling to other professionals is much, much better. Still can be very difficult but less flat out lies from the customer. When dealing with pushy salespeople, you know they're amateurs.

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Linkat wrote:

The funny thing was I went to one place and the guy that tried to sell to me fit the worst case perfectly. I was quite amused when he pulled out the exact same paper that the book showed and how they jump you from one quadrant of the paper to another (one selling price of the car, one trade in, one financing and I can't remember the other). Whenever you start low balling them, they jump to another area trying to confuse you..

The four squares. It's very common. Selling price, trade-in allowance, monthly payment, and down payment. Usually used when negotiating price and trade-in value for your car. What payment are you looking for? How much are you looking for with your trade? So if you "low-ball" them on the selling price, they'll ask how much you're looking for on your trade...because you can't heavily discount both, Mr. Customer.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

The four squares. It's very common. Selling price, trade-in allowance, monthly payment, and down payment. Usually used when negotiating price and trade-in value for your car. What payment are you looking for? How much are you looking for with your trade? So if you "low-ball" them on the selling price, they'll ask how much you're looking for on your trade...because you can't heavily discount both, Mr. Customer.

I understand that a car dealership needs to make money, however, this four square thing is a tactic used by shady car salesmen to confuse the customer.

"Four-Square" Negotiating

Here's one old-time ploy dealers use to fudge the numbers without younoticing: Mark Eskeldson, author of What Car Dealers Don't Want You to Know, explainsthat a salesperson will sit you down in front of a blank piece of paper divided intofour quadrants. In each quadrant he'll fill in values for the price, the trade-in value,the down payment and the monthly lease rate. The salesperson will then negotiate the fourfactors separately, crossing out numbers and writing in new ones until the customer ishopelessly confused. The problem is, each of these factors is used to build the monthlypayment. By definition, therefore, they can't be negotiated separately from it. In theend, you think you've cut a great deal on the price and trade-in, when in fact, all you'vedone is told the dealer what monthly payment you'll put up with. Pay attention to the other numbers used in calculating the monthly payment ?- the salesperson may manipulate them to jack up the car's price."

http://finance.comcast.net/personalfinance/view.html?x=autos/leasing/burned#2

I was told if you go some where to buy a car and they pull the old four square to leave.

If it is a tool and not to try to confuse the customer, how come when I went to a reputable dealer (one recommended to me), they did not use such a tactic?

Just as you said previously, we came prepared on financing, price, etc. and negotiated. No paper to try to confuse - no discussion of monthly costs. Just what the selling price would be and then what the financing rate would be. And I choose between my outside financing and theirs - whichever had the lower rate.

"

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I think it's used to make deals more profitable with customers who are buying the car based soley on payment, which is pretty dumb to begin with. For anyone else, it's just an easy way to break down the deal.

I sometimes used it, usually didn't. However if the customer is trading a car, and owes money on the trade, you still need to write the numbers down to illustrate the deal. Whether it's in a four-square format or not is irrelevant. The most confusing thing for some customers was understanding the amount financed, if they owed money on their trade.

The numbers would look something like this, but in four squares:

$20,000 sales price
-$10,000 trade
------------------------
$10,000 + trade (the deal)
+$12,000 owed on trade.

Financing $22,000
- down payment, if any
--------------------------
= $ Amount financed.

Payment @ $22K is:

When they talk about using it as a sales technique to "confuse" the customer, what the dealer is doing it using it to focus on "what's important" to the customer and selling from there. Some dealers will ask the customer "what payment are you trying to be at?" and sell from there. "Well Mr. Customer, if you put down $1,000, we are at your payment...is that doable? Yes? Ok, let's get this credit application filled out, and when do you want to pick up the car?" Or if the customer is more concerned with their trade-in value, they'll negotiate by giving the customer more for his car, while leaving the sale price padded.

Of course, anybody with half a brain will still negotiate the price of the car & trade, NOT the monthly payment, and won't be confused into paying too much by looking at simple math.

Guess either way, whether the presentation is shady or not depends on the salesperson. I liked to be as upfront with people as possible, and wanted them to understand how the numbers were presented before negotating things like payment, so they were NOT confused.

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That is exactly what this one shady guy was doing - well what can afford to pay monthly? Think I would tell him? He was so bad that only a complete idiot would have bought a car from him.

Like I said before there are some reputable car sales people - just need to know who they are. I was very happy with the one I ended up dealing with. They were very professional, pleasant to deal with and not shady.

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Unsolicited Sales Pitches/ How Do YOU Relate To Them?

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