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Alien crash Roswell?

 
 
kev
 
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 10:05 pm
This debate has gone for sixty years, there was a claim in 1947 that a craft from another world crashed to the ground in Roswell New Mexico and there are a lot of apparently sane and sensible people who sixty years on stand by their original testimony that what they witnessed is the truth.

What do you believe??
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,511 • Replies: 20
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 11:03 pm
Yes...No...Maybe. I have heard so much both ways. Nothing would surprise me either way.
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lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:26 am
Ditto.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 06:39 am
If an alien craft did crash and alien bodies were found why hasn't any of it been shown to the public?
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kev
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 07:12 am
There is actually a reason I asked this question, the USA governments official position is that the wreckage found was the remains of a weather balloon but the question is this, if it was a weather balloon why was it instantly labelled under the heading "Classified information" and more importantly why today, 60 years later is it still classified information?

How secret can a weather balloon be?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 07:53 am
A weather baloon can be very secret. Freedom of Information Act searches have revealed (and quite a while ago, too) that the United States Army Air Force (the Air Force as a separate service was not established until later in the year) was conducting experiments with weather baloons carrying radar reflective arrays in the attempt to determine if such baloons could be used to spot radar installations. The idea was that is the weather baloons were towing a radar reflective array which reflected sufficient radar radiation for someone to detect it if they were looking for it, but low enough to be taken simply as "scatter" from the baloon by someone who were not suspicious, then maybe such baloons could be used to identify the location of Soviet radar installations (through triangulation). I do not recall the name of the project, but it was active at that time. If one of the baloons from the project came down, the USAAF would want to scoop up the wreckage, and then stonewall questions about the wreckage which had been found. There might not really have been anything to have been feared by such a discovery, but that is not how the minds of security-conscious officers work. They'd have hushed things up as quickly as possible. The Roswell newspaper published a report of the discovery, in which the reported made a tongue in cheek reference to "flying saucers." Other news agencies jumped all over it, in the slow news season, also known as the silly season. Then the matter rested for just over 30 years.

Then in 1978, an author who makes a living from scamming the credulous unearthed the event, and started the whole "Roswell incident" cottage industry. People of this type make a good living writing books which will appeal to those who long to believe in conspiracy theories and tales of extraterrestrial visitations. The man who originally found the wreckage was a caretaker on that "ranch" (where no one lived) and several other properties. He had found and turned in the wreckage of baloons in the past, and said at the time that that was what it looked like to him. But those who want to separate you from your hard-earned dollars for such stories are nothing if not resourceful. Children of and other relatives of the principle players in the event were brought forward with vague and ominous stories of nameless and faceless men coming in the night to threaten people to keep them silent. Ask yourself, if you were a middle-aged woman living in a remote rural area of New Mexico and someone showed up waving cash and an artistic waiver under your nose, wouldn't you take the money and sign the form?

It has also been suggested that the baloon project (Project Mogul--i just searched for it online) was an attempt to detect Soviet nuclear tests. My recollection about radar installation discovery seems to be incorrect.

Quote:
Charles Moore, one of the original Project Mogul balloon engineers, started out as a fairly objective party when it came to the Roswell incident, dating back to original interviews around 1980 (perhaps because like many other Mogul balloon people, he had had his own UFO sightings). But sometime in the 1990s, he cast his lot with the debunkers. Moore seems to have become firmly convinced that the lost Project Mogul Flight #4 balloon train, launched June 4, 1947 from Alamogordo Army Air Field, must have been what rancher Mack Brazel found crashed on his ranch about 85 miles NNE of the launch site and reported as a crashed flying disk. Thus Flight #4, in Moore's mind, is definitely the solution to the Roswell mystery.

In 1995, prompted by weather records supplied to him by Roswell researcher Kevin Randle, Moore attempted to recreate a possible trajectory for Flight #4. N.M. skeptic Dave Thomas in the July 1995 Skeptical Inquirer stated triumphantly:

Moore's analysis indicates that after Flight 4 lifted off from Alamogordo, it probably ascended while traveling northeast (toward Arabela), then turned toward the northwest during its passage through the stratosphere, and then descended back to earth in a generally northeast direction. Moore's calculated balloon path is quite consistent with a landing at the Foster ranch, approximately 85 miles northeast of the Alamogordo launch site and 60 miles northwest of Roswell.


Source for the quote given above.

I am also willing to note that one can find lots of web sites which purport that the Roswell "alien spacecraft crash" actually occured. Personally, i don't believe them.

You can read the Wikipedia article on Roswell at this linked page. The Wikipedia page carries the warning that the information presented has been challenged on neutrality--i.e., that it is contested as being inaccurate and biased.

The Wikipedia article refers to and links a page on the "alien autopsy" video. I've seen the video, and knew it was false immediately. At the beginning of the video, before they even showed the thoroughly unbelievalbe "alien corpses," the camera pans the room in which the autopsies were alleged to have occured. In the image, there is a wall-mounted telephone, and the handset is connected to the receiver by a spiral coiled cord. Spiral coiled cords did not exist in the late 1940s. They did not appear in the United States until the late 1950s, and were not common until the 1960s. When i saw that, i knew the video was a hoax at the very beginning.

People may believe what they wish. I suggest, though, that if you actually buy, for cash, any of the books or videos on the subject, that the warning about a fool and his money applies.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 07:56 am
By the way, note that i was wrong about the purpose of Project Mogul. That is because i relied upon my memory, and what i believed i had heard may have come from an unreliable source, or my memory may just be faulty. That should serve to show that one needs to check such things carefully. Just relying upon one's own vague memories, or on what someone else (who may well have dollar signs in their eyes) tells you, is not a good idea.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 08:17 am
I haven't spent much time on this topic in quite some time. I recall from my investigations that I concluded that it is a bogus claim. I have yet to see a convincing argument if favor of the alien presence.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 08:40 am
I an relying on memory here because I for the most part stay as far away from this as possible. But not to many years ago (within the last 10) an official report was published that reveled that the Roswell crash was part of a nuclear detonation detection system. The thinking was that a nuclear explosion would produce pressure wave that would travel long distances and very sensitive barrometers and microphones could detect those waves and from them it was possible to calculate the size/strength of the detonation. In the early 50's the army was lofting ballons with those detectors and very large sound collecting/concentrating disks made of light weight aluminum. That is what crashed at Roswell.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 09:28 am
New Mexico is a virtual Mecca for illegal aliens. Been going on for a long time, eh? We've another crash site up the road by Aztec, NM.
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 10:10 am
roger wrote:
New Mexico is a virtual Mecca for illegal aliens. Been going on for a long time, eh? We've another crash site up the road by Aztec, NM.


"We" as in one of "your" ships, Roger?

I knew something was funny about you guys when we met last summer.
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kev
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:06 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I haven't spent much time on this topic in quite some time. I recall from my investigations that I concluded that it is a bogus claim. I have yet to see a convincing argument if favor of the alien presence.


Edgar forget for a minute the available evidence which of course isn't available, look at the basic question why is it classified information?

If a ford escort crashes into another ford escort, is it "Classified information"

If there is a forest fire in California in summer is it "Classified information"

If a weather balloon falls to the earth is it classified information, The results of which the american public should never be allowed to see?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:10 pm
I see you have decided to ignore entirely the Project Mogul information, and the fact that it was a classified project. The folks who make money selling UFOs to the credulous must love you.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:25 pm
What Setanta said.
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kev
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:42 pm
Setanta wrote:
I see you have decided to ignore entirely the Project Mogul information, and the fact that it was a classified project.


I don't even know what the project Mogul information is Setanta please enlighten my darkness.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:45 pm
Go back to page one and read my first reply to your thread.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 01:02 pm
roger wrote:
New Mexico is a virtual Mecca for illegal aliens. Been going on for a long time, eh? We've another crash site up the road by Aztec, NM.

Yeah, but what kind of driver's license did they have? Did they even have one?
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 01:11 pm
All of our aliens have really great looking documents, Reyn.

Eva, could we just let that subject sort of die away?
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 01:56 pm
I remember reading last year in The Skeptical Inquirer that Roswell, NM had moved the site of the supposed crash to another piece of land.

The owner of the original site objected to being invaded by the credulous.

CSICOP regularly debunks the Roswell myth.

A partial bibliography:

Skeptical Inquirer magazine:

Quote:
Real Roswell Crashed Saucer Coverup; Book Review (Skeptical Inquirer May 1998) (1000)

Roswell UFO Crash and Project Mogul (Skeptical Inquirer July 1995) (400)

What Really Happened at Roswell (Skeptical Inquirer / July 1997) (233)

The Truth Is, They Never Were `Saucers'; Psychic Vibrations (Skeptical Inquirer September 1997) (166)

Alien Autopsy's Overwhelming Lack of Credibility (Skeptical Inquirer January 1996) (133)

Bible-Code Developments; Follow-up (Skeptical Inquirer March 1998) (133)

Alien artifacts: ET, You've Got Mail; Psychic Vibrations (Skeptical Inquirer March 2000) (100)

Majestic-12 Documents: New Bogus MJ-12 Documents (Skeptical Inquirer May 2000) (100)

Psychic Vibrations: UFOs Hot and Cold (Skeptical Inquirer Sep 2003) (100)

Alien Autopsy Hoax; Investigative Files (Skeptical Inquirer November 1995) (100)

Alien Autopsy Show-and-Tell; Media Watch (Skeptical Inquirer November 1995) (100)

That's Entertainment! TV's UFO Coverup (Skeptical Inquirer November 1996) (100)

Planting a Seed of Doubt (Skeptical Inquirer July 1998) (100)

25 Years of Science and Skepticism (Skeptical Inquirer May 2001) (66)

Are Science and Religion Compatible? (Skeptical Inquirer March 2002) (66)

Taken miniseries review (Skeptical Inquirer March 2003) (66)

From Internet Scams to Urban Legends, Planet (hoa)X to the Bible Code (Skeptical Inquirer Mar 2004) (66)

Psychic Vibrations (Skeptical Inquirer July 2004) (66)

Exploring Mind, Memory, and the Psychology of Belief (Skeptical Inquirer January 1995) (66)

The Cold War's Classified Skyhook Program (Skeptical Inquirer May 2004) (33)

The Campeche, Mexico 'Infrared UFO' Video (Skeptical Inquirer September 2004) (33)

Bible Code and Hidden Messages (Skeptical Inquirer November 1997) (33)

Skeptical Briefs newsletter:

Group News (Skeptical Briefs June 1997


The Roswell Chamber of Commerce disagrees with CSICOP.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:52 pm
In Phoenix, AZ there ia a dam called "Dreamy Draw" dam which is located near the Dreamy Draw mountains. It is a dam in the middle of the desert. Supposedly it was bult for drainage during the monsoon season, however, that area does not flood during monsoon season. Supposedly a UFO crashed there and the Army built the dam to cover it up.
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