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America... Spying on Americans II

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:34 pm
McGentrix wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
The people who are opposed to this program are opposed on quite legitimate grounds. You may feel that it is just a morphing opposition to Bush himself, but that's based on your proxied persecution complex and not on fact.


Riiiight... There's no political games being played with national security. Rolling Eyes


Do tell. And let me guess, only the Democrats would do such a thing. Rolling Eyes
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:44 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
The people who are opposed to this program are opposed on quite legitimate grounds. You may feel that it is just a morphing opposition to Bush himself, but that's based on your proxied persecution complex and not on fact.


Riiiight... There's no political games being played with national security. Rolling Eyes


Do tell. And let me guess, only the Democrats would do such a thing. Rolling Eyes


In regards to this specific situation, that's right.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:48 pm
McG, you are unable to look at this issue objectively.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:55 pm
McGentrix wrote:
revel wrote:
Do you have a link where it says congress has a committee where the details of the program will be provided? Gonzales has said they will not release the details of the program, didn't say anything about providing it to a select committee.


White House Agrees to Brief Congress on NSA Surveillance


I am glad they agreed to brief congress, though it was limited in scope, at least they went further than Gonzales appeared to in the article.

From you own article, it is clear there are just as many republicans concerned about this program as democrats. I am really heartened to read this.

Quote:
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said in an interview that the "balance must be preserved between the executive branch and the legislature. And I think this is a clear example of where the balance has gotten skewed. . . . The administration cannot unilaterally assume that they have the answers to get around or go over a law." Hagel sits on the Senate intelligence committee, which is to be privately briefed today by Gonzales and Hayden.

Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) said in an interview, "I think there's a decent shot at crafting legislation to make the FISA court a more workable option" for setting guidelines for the surveillance program. He said he wants "a separate set of eyes involved in this to provide safeguards."


I agree with Brownback, republican or not.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:58 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
McG, you are unable to look at this issue objectively.


Oh please. You aren't exactly one to comment on that.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 12:59 pm
Oh but I am.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 01:09 pm
FreeDuck wrote: Oh but I am.


I second that!
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Libcoesque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 01:32 pm


As Leahy pointed out, Congress learns far more information from the newspapers than it does from briefings. A bush administration briefing is worthless.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 01:40 pm
I believe Libcoesque made it #3. Cool
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2007 01:41 pm
Sure does.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 01:10 pm
They've had enough time to delete and revise anything about this program since the democrats took over congress in November.

Justice to release spy program details
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Wednesday he will turn over secret documents detailing the government's domestic spying program, ending a two-week standoff with the Senate Judiciary Committee over surveillance targeting terror suspects
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 01:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
They've had enough time to delete and revise anything about this program since the democrats took over congress in November.


Well I would hope so. It is a secret, you know.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 01:27 pm
"Balance of power" flies way over your head.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 01:40 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"Balance of power" flies way over your head.


Facetiousness flies way over yours.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 02:11 pm
The only thing "faceiousness" is your brain that doesn't know that wiretaps without FISA court approval is illegal. You're a lawyer that doesn't understand the basics of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.



"Now, I want to be absolutely clear. What the President ordered in this case was a crime.

... and we have to deal with that as citizens and, unfortunately, You have to deal with that as Members of Congress.

...Now, Members that stay silent are making a choice. Very few Members have faced this type of test of Faith. But You are facing it now, and as Citizens and as Members, it's now up to us. We are called to account to the many benefits that we have gotten from this system.

We are called to account to do something, and not to remain silent."

Jonathan Turley
Professor of Constitutional Law,
George Washington University
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Jan, 2007 02:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The only thing "faceiousness" is your brain that doesn't know that wiretaps without FISA court approval is illegal. You're a lawyer that doesn't understand the basics of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.


Careful, c.i. .... temper, temper.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:56 pm
Thought this topic was going away, Republicans? Nope.

http://nswbc.org/Press%20Releases/PressRelease-March5-07.htm

Quote:


The National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC) has obtained a copy of an official complaint filed by a veteran FBI Special Agent, Gilbert Graham, with the Department of Justice Office of the Inspector General (DOJ-OIG). SA Graham's protected disclosures report the violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in conducting electronic surveillance of high-profile U.S. public officials.

Before his retirement in 2002, SA Gilbert Graham worked for the FBI Washington Field Office (WFO) Squad NS-24. One of the main areas of Mr. Graham's counterintelligence investigations involved espionage activities by Turkish officials and agents in the United States. On April 2, 2002, Graham filed with the DOJ-OIG a classified protected disclosure, which provided a detailed account of FISA violations involving misuse of FISA warrants to engage in domestic surveillance. In his unclassified report SA Graham states:

"It is the complainant's reasonable belief that the request for ELSUR [electronic surveillance] coverage was a subterfuge to collect evidentiary information concerning public corruption matters."


Follow the link for voluminous amounts of notes and links.

Please note that this is exactly the kind of allegations which I have expected to come out since day one of this whole fiasco; that the NSA has been spying on Americans and the political enemies of the WH illegally.

Cycloptichorn
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:58 pm
Quote:
In an interview with NSWBC investigators the former FBI Specialist, who wished to remain anonymous, stated: "…you are looking at covering up massive public corruption and espionage cases; to top that off you have major violations of FISA by the FBI Washington Field Office and HQ targeting these cases. Everyone involved has motive to cover up these reports and prevent investigation and public disclosure. No wonder they invoked the state secrets privilege in Edmonds' case."


Cycloptichorn
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:59 pm
The plot thickens.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 04:45 pm
The Privacy Board is headed by a neocon. No conflict of interest by any means.

Privacy board OKs eavesdropping programsCarol Dinkins, a Houston lawyer and former Reagan administration assistant attorney general who chairs the board.

"The program is structured and implemented in a way that is properly protective and attentive to civil liberties," she said.

Some board members were troubled by the Department of Homeland Security's error-ridden no-fly lists, which critics say use subjective or inconclusive data to flag suspect travelers.
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