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Doesn't Chinese censorship give the game away?

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As the CCP censors so much of the internet in China I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government. If you use the internet and find that the government has blocked loads of pages, doesn't that tell you they're hiding something? Wouldn't you become very skeptical of the government? The Chinese people i meet don't seem to have any concerns and believe their government's statements that Falun Gong is dangerous, they should take back Taiwan and that the CCP is generally doing a good job.
Why don't they realise this censorship means they are lying politicians like all the others?

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"As the CCP censors so much of the internet in China I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government."

Uh.........Konstansis you could say the same thing about Cubans and Castro. It's a Totalitarian government......You go along to get along. Otherwise they might find you in a ditch.............?

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What could probably be the reason for censorship in any country? Why doesn't the American public see the coffins of returning dead soldiers? Why were the journalists in Iraq "embedded"? Why can't the documents and pictures on torture be made public?
The Reporters Without Borders worldwide press freedom index relegated the United States to 108th place (out of 167) for attacks on press freedom in US-occupied Iraq. The US army was involved in the death of five journalists and media assistants there during the year, the same number as in 2003. US officials in each case refused to conduct serious investigations in the deaths.
Neither members of UNICEF nor International Red Cross were allowed to visit US detention facilities in Iraq or Afghanistan. Journalists visiting the US military base at Guantanamo are still strictly supervised since the worldwide publicity given in 2002 to photos of prisoners being treated in a degrading manner.
In the US, several foreign journalists were deported last year for not having journalist visas, including Elena Lappin, of the British daily The Guardian, who was arrested when she flew into Los Angeles on 3 May, was held in prison overnight and then put on a plane back to London. Thirteen journalists were expelled for the same reason in 2003. All were from countries whose citizens did not generally need entry visas.
So you could ask whether or not the American censorship gives the game away or not, but given the reelection of George W, I rather doubt it.

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bookmark again

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I was about to post one of my diatribes, but was pleasantly surprised that Old Europe has covered it all (and more) in a much more succinct way.

So........What he said.

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Re: Doesn't Chinese censorship give the game away?

Konstansis wrote:

As the CCP censors so much of the internet in China I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government.

We support them not because we might end up in a ditch, but because we agree with their viewpoints. As for dissenters, you may find that every country has dissenters against their current government - otherwise Australia would not have "no John Howard" badges and America would not have Democrat supporters.

Konstansis wrote:

The Chinese people i meet don't seem to have any concerns and believe their government's statements that Falun Gong is dangerous, they should take back Taiwan and that the CCP is generally doing a good job.

Firstly: How aren't the Chinese government doing a good job?

As for Falungong - the chinese people have seen first hand what it can do to their followers and that is why we believe in the government:

- encourage them not to see doctors - that disease and death is fate
- their leaders have claimed they have supernatural healing powers
- the main leader has actually claimed that he saved the world from explosion

You may claim that none of this happens elsewhere and that its the PRC's supporters concotions but naturally if Falun Gong supporters wanted western support of course they would conform to what the westerners saw as legitimate, pure mediation activities only.

As for Chinese people not having any concerns - look at this in the context of what the chinese want - money. A booming economy. Business. More money. I'm not exagerating. And they will agree with anything that is done so long as it doesn't hinder their getting-rich opportunities, and even if it doesn't involves freedom of the press, elections and what not. We don't care - its a very realistic view.

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pragmatic wrote:

As for Falungong - the chinese people have seen first hand what it can do to their followers and that is why we believe in the government:

- encourage them not to see doctors - that disease and death is fate
- their leaders have claimed they have supernatural healing powers
- the main leader has actually claimed that he saved the world from explosion

Sounds a lot like the Church of Christ Scientist which gets tax-exempt status in the USA along with all other 'legitimate' religions.

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Re: Doesn't Chinese censorship give the game away?

pragmatic wrote:

Konstansis wrote:
As the CCP censors so much of the internet in China I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government.

We support them not because we might end up in a ditch, but because we agree with their viewpoints. As for dissenters, you may find that every country has dissenters against their current government - otherwise Australia would not have "no John Howard" badges and America would not have Democrat supporters.

Konstansis wrote:
The Chinese people i meet don't seem to have any concerns and believe their government's statements that Falun Gong is dangerous, they should take back Taiwan and that the CCP is generally doing a good job.

Firstly: How aren't the Chinese government doing a good job?

As for Falungong - the chinese people have seen first hand what it can do to their followers and that is why we believe in the government:

- encourage them not to see doctors - that disease and death is fate
- their leaders have claimed they have supernatural healing powers
- the main leader has actually claimed that he saved the world from explosion

You may claim that none of this happens elsewhere and that its the PRC's supporters concotions but naturally if Falun Gong supporters wanted western support of course they would conform to what the westerners saw as legitimate, pure mediation activities only.

As for Chinese people not having any concerns - look at this in the context of what the chinese want - money. A booming economy. Business. More money. I'm not exagerating. And they will agree with anything that is done so long as it doesn't hinder their getting-rich opportunities, and even if it doesn't involves freedom of the press, elections and what not. We don't care - its a very realistic view.

You very nicely dodged the issue of Taiwan.
Why?

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Re: Doesn't Chinese censorship give the game away?

mysteryman wrote:

You very nicely dodged the issue of Taiwan.
Why?

Thank you for that compliment but .... I have devoted this issue to an entire thread elsewhere and I'm not saying it all again:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47537&highlight=

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Quote:

I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government.

Since it's a totalitarian government it doesn't really matter if the Chinese people support or dissent from their government. If they dissent they get chucked in the slammer for a few years. If they shut up they don't get chucked in the slammer or beaten up by the police/security forces. The single-party state has control of all the coercive arms of the state and they won't hesitate to use them as we saw in the murders in Tianmen Square.

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goodfielder wrote:

Quote:
I'm very interested in why the Chinese continue to support their government.

Since it's a totalitarian government it doesn't really matter if the Chinese people support or dissent from their government. If they dissent they get chucked in the slammer for a few years. If they shut up they don't get chucked in the slammer or beaten up by the police/security forces. The single-party state has control of all the coercive arms of the state and they won't hesitate to use them as we saw in the murders in Tianmen Square.

Why is it that everyone thinks we support China's PRC because we will die if we don't? Here I am, an Australian citizen in Australia and I support the PRC - so what will happen to me?

Confused

Confused

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pragmatic wrote:

Why is it that everyone thinks we support China's PRC because we will die if we don't? Here I am, an Australian citizen in Australia and I support the PRC - so what will happen to me?

Answering your second question first pragmatic - nothing will happen to you. In Australia you can support or dissent. However I would advise anyone against standing outside the PRC Embassy in Canberra with a Falun Gong poster on display.

In China dissenters are crushed. We know that.

But if you support the PRC in its current form then that means you are happy with it and no more need be said about it.

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[quote="goodfielder] However I would advise anyone against standing outside the PRC Embassy in Canberra with a Falun Gong poster on display. [/quote]

I would advise against anyone listening to the Falun Gong protestors.

[quote="goodfielder]In China dissenters are crushed. We know that. [/quote]

No we don't. Nothing has happened in HK except negotiations and more elections and what were the results? Well well well. The HK people elected the government that many claim the PRC put in place as the puppet government.

I am going to repeat what I said in a previous post:

On the assumption that you are referring to the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown (and I apologise if such assumption is incorrect) please allow me to highlight some significant points:

- the crackdown was far more different and extreme to Mr Chen's current claims - in 1989, the students had almost gotten to the extent of overthrow of the government. Had they succeeded, (ie, had the gov continued to remain inactive) china would have drowned into a state of anarchy. The gov, at that critical moment was, very much forced to the extent and the extreme. I do not justify their actions, but merely explain them.
- in 2005 and Mr Chen however, it is guaranteed that China will not put him as number one on the most wanted list as they had done Wang Dan - all Mr Chen has done is:
o defend Falongong
o and, as unfounded his claims are at the moment, allege, merely allege but never affirmatively establish spying claims in Australia by the Chinese.

- I point out also that 1989 is almost 20 years ago in history - 16 years to be exact. China now has changed very much - one example is their attitude towards the recent protests in HK, where the people of the HK SAR (special administration region) were protesting against the then chief executive Tung Chee Hwa [whom they had legally voted for themselves, with China's full approval of their right to vote], demanding his resignation. China's government did not "treat these "dissenters"" in any way other than to let them protest, and meanwhile hold talks with HK SAR government for possible solutions and alternatives. Tung eventually stepped down and the Chinese gov welcomed his successor Donald Tsung - the process was peaceful and friendly and there are no longer protests being held.

By saying "we all know what china does to dissenters" I believe that you may have fallen into the trap (maybe unconsciously) of defining a country and its policy in its present state by its past. On such reasoning, the Chinese people would be fully justified (but also fully guilty) in claiming that the Australian government continues to this day, to commit stolen generation crimes, they continue to take children away from their families and they continue to aim to eradicate the whole aboriginal race - which you and I both know such does not occur anymore, although, unfortunately such things did happen only not so long ago.

Of course the Chinese do not claim such; please note the above is merely a parallel hypothetical analogy.

As for falongong "dissenters" I will try to locate a press report I read a few weeks ago about them in America. Briefly, a Chinese reporter who had reported some of Falongong's own "dark issues" was in America, attending Yale University's graduation ceremony where his daughter was graduating. A falongong member saw him and recognised him and immediately brought legal action against the reporter for a number of crimes, I believe among them issues similar to defamation etc. The reporter eventually had to argue American laws of free speech as defence. It is quite ironic that Falongong advocate for issues such as these, but they sue those who rely on them, where the reliance results in criticism of Falongong, but never where reliance results in benefiting Falongong. I'm sorry; I do not have the URL but will try to find it for you.

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The falungong are a bunch of liers. They tell people to sit in this stance that resembles the Yoga stance and claim this has remedial effects and that it can heal cancers inside the body. Due to what they have claimed, many Chinese have since died because of their decision to stop taking medical treatment for their illnesses. How can the west possibly endorse such organisations?

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I don't care much about Falun Gong - or for that matter Scientologists. I don't really care that much about Christians or Buddhists or Muslims or Taoists and so on. I prefer to let people practice whatever form of spirituality they wish - and that can be tantric sex for all I care.

I do care if people who are doing no harm to anyone are oppressed by government - totalitarian (as in the PRC) or anywhere else.

I do care when individuals are hurt. For example where I live Jehovah's Witnesses cannot stop their children receiving blood transfusions if needed, even though it goes against their religious principles. That's why I like secular laws.

If people wish to believe that a yoga stance can cure them or that there is an afterlife or there is a god that's their business. Far be it from me to tell them how to live their lives as adults.

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old europe wrote:

What could probably be the reason for censorship in any country? Why doesn't the American public see the coffins of returning dead soldiers? Why were the journalists in Iraq "embedded"? Why can't the documents and pictures on torture be made public?
The Reporters Without Borders worldwide press freedom index relegated the United States to 108th place (out of 167) for attacks on press freedom in US-occupied Iraq. The US army was involved in the death of five journalists and media assistants there during the year, the same number as in 2003. US officials in each case refused to conduct serious investigations in the deaths.
Neither members of UNICEF nor International Red Cross were allowed to visit US detention facilities in Iraq or Afghanistan. Journalists visiting the US military base at Guantanamo are still strictly supervised since the worldwide publicity given in 2002 to photos of prisoners being treated in a degrading manner.
In the US, several foreign journalists were deported last year for not having journalist visas, including Elena Lappin, of the British daily The Guardian, who was arrested when she flew into Los Angeles on 3 May, was held in prison overnight and then put on a plane back to London. Thirteen journalists were expelled for the same reason in 2003. All were from countries whose citizens did not generally need entry visas.
So you could ask whether or not the American censorship gives the game away or not, but given the reelection of George W, I rather doubt it.

Why can't anyone discuss a different country without the evils of the US being shown as worse by someone as though it actually were?

This disgusts me and I spit on the quoted post.

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You're going to run out of spittle soon, McG. The winds of popular opinion -- and, therefore, of history -- are blowing it right back into your face.

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looks like the end of another topic

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