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Seasons

 
 
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 07:05 pm
As earth experiences 4 different seasons in its yearly orbit around the sun which is the central point of our Solar system, does our solar system also experience different seasons in its orbit around the central Black Hole of our Milky Way Galaxy?
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 294 • Replies: 16
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 08:19 pm
@The Anointed,
You are going to have to define your terms. I can tell you what a "season" is in Earth terms, and I can tell you what each season means in terms of human experience. I am thinking the number 4 is somewhat arbitrary, humans could have just as easily broken the year into 6 or 8 although solstice and equinox are useful astronomical terms.

The seasons on earth represent the fact that the Earth's axis of rotation is tilted with respect to its orbital plane. This means that during our "winter" there are fewer hours that sunlight hits our hemisphere and less energy hitting our part of the Earth (and in "summer" there is more). It is sunlight that explains the importance of summer versus winter.

I would also point out that in the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere the seasons are reversed (the Northern hemisphere is in its cold season when the Southern hemisphere is in its warm season).

So.... it is true that the solar system is tilted compared to the galactic plane. However how you define "season" or how you decide Northern vs. Southern parts of the solar system, or what takes the place of Sunlight on the galactic scale seem unclear to me.

I don't think galactic seasons would have any useful meaning. Of course, you can still define them if you would like.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 09:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am thinking the number 4 is somewhat arbitrary, humans could have just as easily broken the year into 6 or 8


But they didn't: They broke them down to the four seasons, Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring.

In reference to the galactic yearly orbit of our solar sun around the central core of the galaxy, our Solar system also moves above and below the galactic plane, every 63-70 million years, which means that about every 3o-35 million years or so we cross the galactic plane where we are bombarded with cosmic radiation etc, and as it takes our solar system 225 to 250 million years to complete one orbit, this means in a complete orbit of the galaxy, our solar systems crosses the galactic plane about seven times, and there are those who believe that with each crossing of the galactic plane, occurs the extinction of all life within our solar system.

Is the temperature within the solar system affected by the distance that we are above or below the galactic plane?

I am no scientist, I simply read the different scientific theories, and either accept that which confirms the data that I have already accepted, or reject that which does not fit into my evolving mental jigsaw.

I believe that if I lived in the days of Nicolaus Copernicus, I would have rejected the scientific theory of those days, that it was the earth, around which the entire universe revolved, which appeared to be logical to the casual observers, and after hearing Copernicus' side of the story, I would have accepted Copernicus' theory of the sun centred universe, while accepting that his theory would continue to evolve as more data was accumulated.

So again, I ask the question; "Does the solar system experience different seasons in its orbit of the Galaxy?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 10:00 pm
@The Anointed,
Quote:

But they didn't: They broke them down to the four seasons, Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring.


Who are you talking about when you say "they broke them". Are we talking about Western Europeans?

After responding your post, I checked out of curiosity if having 4 seasons is Universal. It isn't.

Several cultures including Cree and Hindu divide the year into 6 seasons. Some indigenous Australian cultures have 7 seasons. The Ancient Egyptions and the Thai recognized 3 seasons. The Sami in Scandinavia had 8.

It is not only arbitrary, it is different in different cultures.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 10:05 pm
@The Anointed,
Quote:
Is the temperature within the solar system affected by the distance that we are above or below the galactic plane?


The answer is no, for two reasons?

1) What does the word "above" mean in the "galactic plane"? What experiment could you do to tell if we are currently "above" or "below"? (Just to make it clear... to answer this question you need to tell me which directly is "up" on a galactic sense... on Earth the word "up" means "away from the Earth's center"_

2) Our heat comes from the Sun. The galactic plane has nothing to do with this.
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maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 10:06 pm
@The Anointed,
I answered your question.

In any meaningful way the answer is "No". The earth does not "experience" seasons".

If you define what a "season" is in a way that can be measured and then assign meaning to it yourself, then the answer would be "Yes". But the meaning would be arbitrary (i.e. something you just made up yourself).
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The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 10:09 pm
@maxdancona,
All irrellivant to the main point of this thread, which asks; "Does our solar system also experience different seasons in its orbit around the central Black Hole of our Milky Way Galaxy?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 10:20 pm
@The Anointed,
The simple answer is --- No. The solar system does not experience seasons as it travels around the galactic center.

I was trying to give you more to think about.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2022 11:25 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The simple answer is --- No. The solar system does not experience seasons as it travels around the galactic center.


Besides the spiral arm passages, our galactic motion should give rise to a faster cosmic ray flux modulation—in addition to the solar system’s orbit around the galaxy, with roughly a 250-million-year period, the solar system also oscillates perpendicular to the galactic plane. Since the cosmic ray density is higher at the plane, it should be colder every time the solar system crosses it, which depending on the exact amount of mass in the galactic disk should be every 30 to 40 million years.

Astronomers don’t think that anything special will happen when the Solar System actually pass' through the galactic plane. (Don’t Think, being the operative words) In fact, it’s the times when the Earth is above or below the galactic plane when we might be at risk. A recent scientific study correlated those times with large extinction events in the Earth’s history.

The cosmic ray flux history can be reconstructed. It exhibits seven clear cycles, which coincide with the seven periods of ice-age epochs that took place over the past billion years.

But this can all be verified if you care to search through your internet.

Just as you attack the scriptures which you refuse to study, you now attack the scientific evidence which you have also never bothered to study



0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 06:52 am
@The Anointed,
Given that it takes around 250 million years for one such orbit, it seems unlikely you could separate out any such changes from the higher frequency changes that would occur on Earth in that time.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 03:43 pm
@engineer,
Earth's Ice ages had a cause, what do you believe caused those cyclic events, and what are the chances of more meteorite and comet strikes as we pass through the galactic plane around and about every 30 million years, which we will soon be doing, soon, as in Cosmological time.

https://www.space.com/31001-earth-mass-extinctions-comet-strikes.html
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 07:16 pm
@The Anointed,
Even if there is a galactic band where bad things happen. That isn't a "season".
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 07:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Even if there is a galactic band where bad things happen. That isn't a "season".


The cosmic ray flux history can be reconstructed. It exhibits seven clear cycles, which coincide with the seven periods of ice-age epochs that took place over the past billion years.

The cyclic ice ages that have occurred on earth had a cause, what was the cause of those ice ages?

Astronomers don’t think that anything special will happen when the Solar System actually pass' through the galactic plane. (Don’t Think, being the operative words) In fact, it’s the times when the Earth is above or below the galactic plane when we might be at risk. A recent scientific study correlated those times with large extinction events in the Earth’s history.

And BTW, I have never claimed that the solar system 'DOES" experience seasons as it orbits the Galactic core, but I did ask the question, "Does our solar system also experience different seasons in its orbit around the central Black Hole of our Milky Way Galaxy?"
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 07:25 pm
@The Anointed,
If you have something that happens every month and something that happens every year and something that happens every 100 years and something that happens every 10,000 years, it is going to be very hard to extract out something that happens every 20 millions years. You will need lots of cycles to separate out the effects and you are never going to get that. It's an interesting thing to contemplate, but no way to really show anything.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 07:33 pm
@engineer,
So, you don't know the answer to the question that has been put forward on this thread, fair enough. Although there are scientists in the field of cosmology who believe that they have a fair idea.

https://www.space.com/31001-earth-mass-extinctions-comet-strikes.html
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 07:41 pm
@The Anointed,
I'm saying that no one can know the answer. Statistically we would need multiple cycles to see if the effect is indeed related to our position relative to the core of the galaxy or if events are caused by one time events. Scientists put forth hypotheses and that's great and they are interesting speculations, but it would be premature (and bad science) to assume that those hypotheses are correct without more data than we have. It's like flipping a coin twice, getting two heads and saying "ah, the coin is not fair!" Could be, but maybe it is something else or maybe just coincidence.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2022 08:11 pm
@The Anointed,
In my second post in this thread, I wrote; “In reference to the galactic yearly orbit of our solar sun around the central core of the galaxy, our Solar system also moves above and below the galactic plane, every 63-70 million years, which means that about every 3o-35 million years or so we cross the galactic plane where we are bombarded with cosmic radiation etc."

Extract from link supplied below.

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-mass-extinction-took-place-in-africa-30-million-years-ago-and-we-ve-only-just-noticed

The close of the Eocene roughly 33 million years ago marks a time of great change on Earth. In a slow reversal of what we're seeing today, temperatures dropped and glaciers stretched their icy fingers towards the equator.

The loss of life across the Asian continent was profound. But Africa's biodiversity, sheltered by the warmth of the tropics, appeared to go unscathed by the colossal changes. Or so we thought.

According to a recently published study by a team of researchers from across the US, we just weren't looking at the fossil record the right way.

The research suggests that far from thriving through this cold change, mammals on the Arabian Peninsula and across the African continent experienced significant declines, with nearly two thirds of their peak diversity disappearing 30 million years ago.

35 million years prior to this event, the Dino extinction was supposed to have occurred 65 millions years ago

Exactly what precipitated each loss isn't clear, though with widespread temperature fluctuations and intense volcanic activity rocking the region, there's no shortage of possibilities.

Perhaps the widespread temperature fluctuations and intense volcanic activity rocking the region have been explained earlier in another link that I supplied where it is written; "Much of the gravitational perturbation, according to this hypothesis, is caused by mysterious dark matter, which far outweighs "normal" matter but neither emits nor absorbs light and is therefore difficult to study. And dark matter may further contribute to mass extinctions, Rampino suggested in a controversial study published earlier this year, by heating up Earth from the inside, leading to huge, climate-altering volcanic eruptions." See link below.

https://www.space.com/31001-earth-mass-extinctions-comet-strikes.html

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