3
   

How liberals are wrong about Covid.

 
 
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 01:29 pm
Quote:
Liberals get the following wrong:

- They exaggerate the deadliness of the pandemic (this affect has been well documented).

- They minimize the harm done by vaccine mandates and shutdowns. This harm includes both economic, and psychological harm.

- They support punitive measures over constructive ones. Political attacks make it harder to get people vaccinated. If you are yelling at "magatards" then reaching out to people who need a vaccination, you are part of the problem.

Public health is a complicated thing. Every action has weighed; the costs versus the benefits. We could do another complete shutdown and it would probably cut down on the virus, but the cost to our economy and our society would be very high (and we already paid these costs).

Neither extreme is the answer, and the liberal extreme is not productive.


From the opening post.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  7  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 01:32 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


The problem is when the left refuses to accept that there is a balance. There is not even an acknowledgement that individual rights are important or threatened by forced vaccines.

The reason the political left is extreme is because it is one-sided, refusing to accept that there is any cost to their ideological position.



Pretty sweeping statement there accusing everyone on the left of.... etc. And once again, the vaccines are NOT BEING FORCED. Coerced, perhaps, but nobody has been forced to get a shot. If you value the truth as much as you claim, then speak honestly. Stop saying Forced.

And are you suggesting the political right is not extreme? Hello? LOL
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 01:57 pm
@Mame,
I am not suggesting that the political right is not extreme.

US politics right now are dominated by two extremes. Able2know is pretty solidly tilted to the left. A thread about how conservatives are wrong about Covid would be perfectly valid, easy to write, and meaningless because everyone already knows that. I will start that thread if you want. I don't think the discussion will be very interesting.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 05:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The (German) Federal Constitutional Court today published decisions regarding restrictions during the pandemic.

The court is of the opinion that these "served in their entirety the protection of life and health as well as the maintenance of a functioning health system as paramount public welfare concerns". (1 BvR 781/21 -, Rn. 1-306)

The curfew and contact restrictions as well as the school closures of the "emergency brake" that expired in June were thus legal.
Here with us, therefore, legal certainty is given for additional protective measures that restrict the rights of individuals in order to now consistently combat the virus.

[NB: The Federal Constitutional Court is to hand down a ruling at a later date on some 100 individual complaints regarding restrictions on the retail sector, cultural events and hotel industry, among other things.]
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 07:04 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
- Do you accept that someone can be pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine mandate?

I accept that some people have said as much.

Here's the issue. Covid vaccines were developed to combat a pandemic. That is their purpose. If someone claims to be "pro-vaccine" we assume that they believe vaccines to be an effective measure to control the pandemic. In order for the vaccines to do this job, vaccination must be as near to universal as possible. A mandate seeks to assure that the largest number of people across the widest area get vaccinated in order to control the pandemic. To say you're pro-vaccine and then – as media crackpots are spreading covid misinformation – to undercut its effectiveness by making it an individual choice is essentially negating the whole concept of mass vaccination as a public health measure.

Quote:
- Do you accept the point that vaccine mandates, forcing* someone to get a vaccine against their will, infringes on a personal autonomy?

Not to a significant degree. One's autonomy is much more severely infringed by unwillingly and unknowingly contracting a serious respiratory disease.

*I'm not in favor of health cops sitting on handcuffed refuseniks and vaccinating them against their will. If people won't conform to the mandate by getting vaccinated we need further measures to protect the public, like requiring frequent testing, continued mask wearing by the willfully unvaccinated, healthy fines or other measures.

Quote:
- Do you accept that there is a line to be drawn between two sets of values... on one side is public safety and on the other side is autonomy and privacy.

In a dangerous pandemic, the negative consequences to public health by over-valuing individual freedom over collective welfare will result in the deaths of more people, including those who oppose the implementation of public health mandates. "Give me liberty or give me death" is fine, but your liberty shouldn't result in the deaths of others.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 07:37 am
@hightor,
Your first point is illogical. A 50% vaccination rate has a significant effect on public health, and 50% is better than 40%. It is probably that getting a high vaccination rate will work better than the cumulative impact. But to say that the impact of vaccinations is "negated" is nonsensical, every person vaccinated is beneficial to themselves and the people around them.

I am going to get my booster shot. I believe that my booster shot will provide me with extra protection and will do my part to stop the spread of whatever variant comes along. What my neighbors are doing has no part in this decision.

Your other points are just reiterating what I said in my opening post.
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 08:37 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Your first point is illogical.

Not really. The purpose of widespread vaccination is to eliminate the threat of infection in as many people as possible. The goal is general immunity, not 50%. Especially as this particular virus is mutating and variants may be more resistant to current vaccines. The CDC was hoping for a 70% vaccination rate when the vaccines first appeared; the arrival of variants and the natural waning of immunity has raised the desired level to 85% and elements of the conservative media are doing all they can to make sure we never get there.

Quote:
Your other points are just reiterating what I said in my opening post.

No, I'm rejecting them.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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