Expansion of the Universe

Does super seeded mean superseded? If no, what do you mean by super seeded?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the size of a bat cave".



Yes.



Correct.



In general, yes. But note that occasional gravitational perturbations will eject a star or planet from a galaxy.

Galaxies have a massive number of stars and planets, but it is still a finite number (even if more are occasionally formed) and the future is infinite. In the far extremely distant future, galaxies will have largely ejected most of their stars and planets into the void.

I am talking of a very extreme distance into the future though before this happens. Something on the order of a trillion trillion years if I recall correctly.

Many thanks for your response Oralloy.
Yes it was a spelling error - how embarrassing.
Apologies for the frivolous reference to a "bat cave" but I was watching Brian Cox's TV series: Universe, where he was introducing the concept of "Energy" being the source of all material in the universe. He was inside a cave at the time (for dramatic effect) and said that the required energy would fill the cave - A revelation to me; I wasn't aware that energy had a volumetric property. Anyway is an energy pool the latest thinking?

The universe may not have started from a literal point of zero dimensions, but it started from something extremely small and underwent explosive expansion.

Hi Brandon,
If the Universe started from something extremely small and underwent explosive expansion, it should be possible to locate its source (ie Centre of the Universe) but "they" say this is not possible because the universe is expanding in all directions from everywhere and not from a single point. ?????

They? Why do you put "they" in quotations.

Is this an anti-science thread?

Let me say this straight.

You can not understand this unless you take a few years to study advanced physics. The expansion, is a mathematical construct. We consider it to be correct because when we do this math, it explains what we observe in the Universe.

But it is the mathematics that are correct, not your understanding of the word.

I can explain to a little about the mathematics, although if you are truly going to understand the mathematics it will take a few years. This is complex stuff that has been developed by the greatest scientific minds over a period of 400 years.

I can explain some of the experiments (my Physics is about 20 years out of date). After scientists developed the mathematics, they made predictions. Then we built telescopes and space craft to check if the predictions the mathematics made are true and theories that didn't match up.

But random musings about English language definitions of mathematical concepts you don't understand are not going to be fruitful.

You are asking about what happened "before" the big bang where you suggest time was created. Do you see how that doesn't even make logical sense?

Well Well maxdancona. I obviously should not be on this forum so I will remove myself forthwith.
I was looking for a way to improve my understanding of cosmology since I find the subject awesome. I have no intention of disrespecting anyone and I used the word "they" because there did seem to be some diversity of views which happens all the time in scientific evolution. Hence the purpose of experimentation and analysis to prove/disprove the theories and concepts.
I do have "A" levels in chemistry, physics and mathematics and a 1st class honours degree in an applied science from Imperial College but that was 50+ years ago and seriously advanced mathematics and physics is well beyond me. Nevertheless I am hoping to improve my "lay" knowledge of the subject matter with the assistance of those more knowledgeable but this is obviously not the place to do it.
Best Regards
Bob G

Why would you think that there is some location in the universe that's the original part? The original part would have expanded to become the entire universe.

Answer to question 1; There was no matter before the event that is called the ‘Big Bang’.

In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists have revealed that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

If you observe the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of “INVISIBLE ENERGY”, not tangible matter.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was, according to the most popular theory of the creation of this universe, pure electromagnetic energy, which, In my Opinion, was spewed out of a WHITE HOLE, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, or, according to scientific measurements (180 million trillion, trillion degrees Fahrenheit), which electromagnetic energy has been converted to that which we perceive as matter, only to be-reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch, when all will be ripped apart atom by atom, subatomic particle by subatomic particle, as the universal bodies fall as fire into the Great Abyss, or Black Hole that is connected to a White Hole at the end of an Einstein Rosen bridge that connects the two.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

The Theory of the BIG BANG as the origin of this universe, begins with an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small ‘SINGULARITY’ which was spatially separated and spewed out, as an extremely hot liquid like plasma of electromagnetic energy in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, in fact our scientists claim that the universal temperature at the instant of the Big Bang, was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist.

According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a regular Schwarzschild black hole, which is a non-rotating black hole as opposed to a rotating Kerr black hole. Nothing can escape from a black hole, not even light, the mass within a black hole warps the fabric of space, as the internal mass increases by the objects falling into and being devoured by that gravitational anomaly, it begins to form a funnel like tunnel in space. (A Worm Hole, or an Einstein Rosen bridge)

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere kilo-metres.

Any object going into a black hole would be ripped apart by the intense gravitational force inside the black hole and re-converted to the photons from which it was originally created.

This generation of the universe began as a singularity and will end as a singularity from which the next generation of the universe will be born.

I got to this point... It is pure bullshit.

So, you believe that you have a greater mind than the greatest quantum physicists of our time, and that all their findings are bullshit do you?

But then, we would not accept a person with the intelligence and attention span of a parrot to be able to get past the point that you did.

Answer to iambobg's second question which was; "Am I correct in saying that Space, Time and the Universe did not exist before the "Big Bang"?

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

Where you have zero space there can be no movement over space, and therefore no time to cover no distance.

The Planck time is the time it would take a photon travelling at the speed of light to across a distance equal to the Planck length. This is the 'quantum of time', the smallest measurement of time that has any meaning, and is equal to 10-43 seconds. No smaller division of time has any meaning.

There is still space, movement and time beyond Planck’s calculations, but the smallest measurement of time that has any meaning, is equal to 10-43 seconds, and no smaller division of time has any meaning to science.

If there is no limit to the division of a unit of time, then eternity would exist in ‘ONE SECOND’. It is not midnight at a half of a second to midnight, nor a quarter, an eighth, a sixteenth, a thirty second, a sixty fourth of a second to midnight, add infinity and if there is no limit to the division of a unit of time, it can never become midnight, eternity would exist within that ‘one second’ of time.

Imagine if you will, the galactic clusters being pulled together by their own gravitational attraction, devouring each other, while the Black Holes at the centre of the galaxies also devour each other, until finally only one super galaxy remains, which is anchored in space, by the massive Black Hole that remains, which Great Abyss eventually devours that universal body, ripping it to pieces until only one photon remains, which photon then begins to bounce back, and starts to move, occupying two positions in spacetime, the distance between the two, and the time taken to cover that inconceivable minute distance, being so far below Planck’s distance and time, has no meaning to science.

The exponential growth of that small pool of shimmering photons, continues to rapidly grow until that superhot liquid like plasma of electromagnetic energy, the quantum of which is photons , Blows out through a white hole at the end of the Great Abyss, or an Einstein Rosen bridge somewhere far beyond the cosmic horizon, and resurrected as it was before entering into the bottomless pit, where the light from its former position in Spacetime, would take billion upon billion of years to reach its new position.

Could this hypothesis be proven? I doubt it. Could it be disproven? Again, I doubt it.

Another universe may have preceded ours study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.

Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin again, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.

I have a Physics degree. I actually took the time to study real Physics in a real University. I don't know everything, but I know enough to know that you have no clue about Physics.

You are just making this **** up.

You probably couldn't pass a high school Physics test. I can't keep you from posting whatever you want. But people reading this should know that you are full of ****.

In answer to iambobg's third question.

A Black Hole is a massive system so centrally condensed that the force of gravity prevents everything within it, even light from escaping. But how many Black Holes are out there in the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos? How much dark energy is hidden within those Black Holes? Nobody knows, science is still coming to grips with Black Holes, which are believed to be at the centre of all Spiral and elliptical galaxies, and Black Holes devour everything of lesser mass that comes in contact with them.

Although today, we have absolute proof that black Holes do exist, much information regarding them remains to be gathered, which future information will hopefully open many windows to shine light on this subject of Black Holes, wormholes, also called Einstein-Rosen bridges and White Holes.

Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of some three to four million suns, and if you think that’s a big black hole, consider this; “In December of 2019, astronomers announced the discovery of one of the biggest black holes ever measured in the nearby universe. That black hole is at the center of an elliptical galaxy in galaxy cluster Abel 85, and has been calculated to be 40 billion times the mass of our sun, which is equivalent to two-thirds the mass of the 100-billion stars in the Milky Way and is roughly the size of our entire solar system.”

Around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were created from the collapse of Gigantic stars that had formed in the galaxy, or which were once at the centre of other lesser galactic bodies that have merged with ours. There are perhaps twenty small galaxies that orbit the Milky Way, like moths around a flame.

The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy which orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy.

The earlier explanations as to a mysterious stream of Gas, which appeared to stretch from them to our galaxy, was the result of gravitational interaction between the two Magellanic clouds, and so, was thought to be coming from them. But researchers from the Leibniz institute for Astrophysics in Germany, taking into account, the best understanding of the diffuse hot Gas that our Milky Way, [Its Corona], couldn’t get that stream of Gas to form, so they came to the conclusion that they simply don’t understand the Milky way’s corona very well. But another possible explanation put forward by them, is that, rather than originating from the Magellanic Clouds, that stream of Gas could be coming from a different Galaxy altogether, which is being devoured, as it plunges into our Milky Way.

Only recently in 2020, scientists witnessed two events ten days apart, of Black Holes devouring neutron stars.

The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes, dying stars, and planets within this galaxy. And yet our galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies that are falling in toward the super gravitational anomaly that is called the ‘Great Attractor’. And even that which is called the ‘Great Attractor’ is flowing toward the Shapley Supercluster? Is there something at the core of the ever-growing Shapley Supercluster that is pulling all the galaxies in our particular section of this boundless cosmos to itself?

Or is it simply the gravitational attraction of the galaxies to each other that has caused the Shapley concentration to grow to the size it is today and continues to grow, as the other galactic clusters in our region are being gathered to it, while the more distant clusters appear to be accelerating away?

Our Milky Way and the nearby Andromeda Galaxy, which are two spiral galaxies are on a collision course, and when these two spiral galaxies collide, they can merge and form an elliptical galaxy, which elliptical galaxies can collide and merge again to form an even larger elliptical galaxy. The central Black holes of those elliptical galaxies also merge and combine to make one massive Black Hole, and those Massive galaxies, which are called ‘core galaxies’ are believed to be the main attractive force at the center of galactic clusters, which clusters are being attracted to a super Duper gravitational anomaly within the Shapley Super Cluster, which is the largest concentration of galaxies in our nearby universe that forms a gravitational anomaly that is pulling itself together instead of expanding with the universe.

It is believed that pairs of spiral galaxies form elliptical galaxies, pairs of those elliptical galaxies form cored elliptical galaxies, and a pair of cored galaxies formed Holmberg 15A, and that this series of mergers also created the ultra-massive black hole in its center, a monster nearly as big as our solar system with the mass of around 40 billion suns.

When will this process end? Will there eventually end up being only one super galaxy orbiting an immeasurable monstrous Black Hole wherein the centre of which, will be crushed all our known universe into the singularity from which our universe began, where the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite? Are we looking at an eternal oscillating universe?

https://www.universetoday.com/113150/what-is-the-great-attractor/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Attractor