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The Words of Jesus

 
 
nycdad
 
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2021 08:35 pm
Ever stop to think who recorded the words of Jesus as He spoke to His disciples and the multitude that daily came out to hear His sermons? The words in the Bible that we have in our homes were written many years after Jesus ascended back to Heaven as recorded in the book of Acts Chapter 1. Are you telling me that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John remembered every single word of Jesus years after the fact? Most of us barely recall what we had for breakfast this morning, especially as we age. Get my point? Explain.
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 196 • Replies: 4
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izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2021 05:47 am
@nycdad,
You're the one who believes it, you explain.

The gospels are third, fourth hand accounts at best, most serious scholars accept that.
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hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2021 06:08 am
@nycdad,
It's safe to assume that much of what we know as the words of Jesus were written by others after his death. Some were "edits" and some were deliberately included to reflect emerging doctrines. Even so, it's likely that maybe a third of the words attributed to Jesus are original and maybe another third are closely related to things he may have said.

There are ways used by biblical scholars for assessing the probability that an entry is authentic:

Orality: According to current estimates, the gospels weren't written until decades after Jesus' death. Parables, aphorisms, and stories were passed down orally (30 – 50 CE). Biblical researchers judge whether a saying is a short, catchy pericope that could possibly survive intact from the speaker's death until decades later when it was first written down. If so, it's more likely to be authentic. For example, "turn the other cheek".

Irony: Based on several important narrative parables (such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan), biblical scholars assume that irony, reversal, and frustration of expectations were characteristic of Jesus' style. Does a selection present opposites or impossibilities? If it does, it's more likely to be authentic. For example, "love your enemies".

Trust in God: A long discourse attested in three gospels has Jesus telling his listeners not to fret but to trust in the Father. Biblical scholars look for this theme in other sayings they deem authentic. For example, "Ask – it'll be given to you".

Generally, it doesn't really matter. Take what you like from the old book and ignore the stuff you disagree with or don't understand.

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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2021 06:19 am
We don't know what Jesus actually said or meant in a religious context, but to put a positive slant on it, I like to think he was a mystic. Christianity was formed and developed long after the death of Jesus, perhaps centuries.

Alan Watts said that when early Christianity was being developed in the first few centuries after the death of Jesus, the founders didn't know where Jesus fit into the religion, so they kicked him upstairs. This meant that they made him part of the religion in a supernatural context. They made the religion supernatural rather than natural. In other words, they corrupted the whole idea of Jesus as a mystic.
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Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2021 06:32 am
@nycdad,
nycdad wrote:

Ever stop to think who recorded the words of Jesus as He spoke to His disciples and the multitude that daily came out to hear His sermons? The words in the Bible that we have in our homes were written many years after Jesus ascended back to Heaven as recorded in the book of Acts Chapter 1. Are you telling me that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John remembered every single word of Jesus years after the fact? Most of us barely recall what we had for breakfast this morning, especially as we age. Get my point? Explain.



From what I have read, most biblical scholars think that many of the teachings, sayings or parables attributed to Jesus...are the kind of thing we now see as the sort of thing attributed to Yogi Berra or Casey Stengel or Jack Warner.

Attribution of many "sayings" (or teachings) are a mystery today...when we have so much relatively contemporaneous scholarship in play.

There was a sect (a cult, if you will) that was (or became) Christianity...with an agenda. They did and said things that furthered that agenda.

Some people today want to attribute the individual components of that agenda...to divine intervention.

Some people don't.

I personally think the basic teachings ascribed to Jesus are terrific...and I attempt to incorporate them into my personal philosophy. The mythology surrounding them seems laughable to me...and I treat it that way.
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