ATOMS

That specific person has asked me for a citation to justify my claim that: "If all matter is made up of Atoms, and atoms have no physical structure at all, and are made out of “INVISIBLE ENERGY”, and not tangible matter, then everything that you perceive as physical matter is no more that an illusion..."

That specific person has demanded that I either back up what I said, otherwise that person will believe that I am just spouting BS.

That person has been informed that I have created this thread for the specific purpose of defending my claims, here's hoping that person who suggests that I am just spouting BS, has the intestinal fortitude to show up, and be proven to be wrong.

The poor boy seems to have been lost, He's still attacking me as to my belief on energy based atoms, in a religious thread, even though he has been told more than once, to come to this thread if he wishes to debate that subject, which is off topic in the religious thread.

Ah well, we'll see.

You created this thread to respond to my responses to you, yet, strangely, fail to include the citation I repeatedly requested. Give me a citation to any peer reviewed journal or popular encyclopedia which backs up what you said ab0ut atoms being made of energy and having no structure. I'm tired of asking you over and over for evidence. A person stating a known scientific fact should be able to provide one citation from a respectable source. If you come pack with more BS and no citation, you lose and I win.

I was waiting for you to appear first.



And I got tired of waiting for you to create a thread in which we could discuss the BS that you seem to believe, that's why I had to create one for you.



Oh, I will, but first

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. If energy cannot be created, then it always was, and if it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end. Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter.

And the eternal energy that has neither beginning or end, has been converted to that which we perceive as matter, and has manifested itself as this seemingly physical universe and all that is herein, only to be re-converted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch, when this universe of energy will be finally crushed back into the singularity of origin.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

The singularity from which this generation of the universe originated, was spatially separated in the event that is called the Big Bang, and this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was pure electromagnetic energy, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, in fact our scientists claim that the universal temperature at the instant of the Big Bang, was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist, nor had the electromagnetic energy at that instant become neutrons protons or electrons, and atoms had not yet been created from that superhot liquid like plasma of electromagnetic energy at that time.

The quantum of the electromagnetic energy, is the photon, which is generally regarded as a discrete stable elementary particle, which is referred to as a ‘Wave Particle’ but is not a particle at all, as a photon has zero mass and no electric charge and yet has linear and angular momentum, and it is from those linear and angular expanding waves, of electromagnetic energy, that this seemingly physical universe and all herein was created.

Now here is the citation that you asked for.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nothing-solid-everything-energy-scientists-explain-world-djurisic

An excerpt from the link provided, as written by the pioneer physicist Sir James Jeans: "The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like 'A GREAT THOUGHT' rather than a great machine. The mind no longer seems to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, but rather a creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, « the mental world »; Nature 436: 29, 2005)

Now you can present your BS on how you believe atoms were created from Matter.

I asked you for a citation to a peer reviewed journal or a popular encyclopedia. Your link goes to an article on Linkedin written by a legal consultant. I can find articles stating that the Earth is flat. I ask again for a citation to a peer reviewed journal or popular encyclopedia.

And you can ask from here to next Sunday, while you do the ostrich act and stick your head in the sand and your ass in the air, but if you are interested in seeking the truth, you can Google up the names of all the top physicists in the field of Quantum physics, who are mentioned in the link that was provided, and see if what was said by them in that link. is true or not, but I don’t think that you are interested in the truth, which reveals that it is you who are full of BS.

So, what do you think of the scientific assessment of the universal temperature at the instant of the event that is called the Big Bang, and that nothing but the eternal electromagnetic energy that has neither beginning or end was all that existed at the moment of the expansion and creation of this universe?

There are none so blind as they who refuse to see.

This is the condensed account of creation as recorded in Genesis’.....…”In the beginning God created the universe, and the (heavens, and the earth) were formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and God’s active force was moving on the face of the waters. Then God said let there be light.”

Here is the scientific theory of creation........In the beginning, there was the “BIG BANG” which is said to have spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, this event spewed out a liquid like soup of electromagnetic energy in the trillions of degrees, in fact our top scientists claim that the universal temperature at the instant of the Big Bang, was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist.

It was from the quantum of that plasma liquid-like electromagnetic energy that the earth and all the heavenly bodies would be created, and although, all that the earth was created from, was already there in the beginning, the earth at that time had neither shape or mass, which meant it was formless and void, and no suns had yet come into existence to light up the darkness of the expanding space. But there was momentum within that ever-cooling cosmic cloud of wave particles, which wave particles are the quantum of that liquid like electromagnetic energy, and are not really particles at all as they have zero mass and no electric charge, yet they carry angular and linear momentum.

One would expect, that those wave particles which are the quantum of the liquid like electromagnetic energy, would have continued to expand further and further away from each other in the expansion of the universal building material.

But with the angular momentum of those waves, they collided with each other in nuclear fusion in the creation of the first basic sub-atomic particles.
As the universal temperature dropped to some billions of degrees, the dark energy which was the expansion’s acceleration force, began to form into dark matter, hydrogen and helium, with trace quantities of lithium, beryllium, and boron.

As the universe expanded and cooled, more hydrogen molecules were formed, and from these, after some thirty million years of gravitational attraction, came the formation of the first gigantic stars, [Massive atomic reactors} from which the galaxies would later be created.

And God said, “Let there be light.” Which was not the light from the sun of this minor solar system within our Milky Way galaxy, which solar system would not be created for some nine billion years after the creation of those first massive stars that lit up the darkness of the bottomless pit, in which massive nuclear reactors the heavier elements were created.

Bursting into life and light throughout the primitive universe over an unknown period of time, those first generation stars would have been thousands upon thousands of times as massive as our Sun and millions of times as bright, but each one burned for only a few million years before meeting a violent end, when they exploded out in a brilliant flash before collapsing in upon themselves creating the massive centrally condensed systems called ‘Black Holes.’

Just as the day of your birth, began your journey to the end and the return to your origin, so too it is with this generation of the universe, which is in the process of returning to the singularity of its origin.

To be continued.

Here on Earth, the person who made the assertion is the one who is responsible for finding evidence. You made a specific, easy to understand claim - that atoms have no structure and are composed of energy rather than matter. Funny thing, though, you cannot provide a single reputable source backing that up. Either provide a reputable citation for what you claimed, or you lose and I win.

You Lie! never did I say that atoms have no structure and are composed of energy rather than matter. What I did say was; “Quantum physicists have revealed that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.” And that Atoms have no 'PHYSICAL' structure.

Atoms, which are composed of energy, are structured, but have no physical structure.

But you don't want to believe the words of our top scientists in the field of quantum physics, do you?

“If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr

“Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual” (1) – Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University (quote taken from “the mental universe)

It’s quite the conundrum, isn’t it? Our experience tells us that our reality is made up of physical material things, and that our world is an independently existing objective one. The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, among others.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like 'A GREAT THOUGHT' than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

And apparently you seem think that the scientists who are evolving the current theory of the Big Bang as the origin of this universe, are full of BS also, those leading scientists who claim that all matter is composed of the energy that was spewed out in the event we call 'The Big Bang' when the universal temperature was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist.

Working backwards from the current state of the Universe, scientists have theorized that it must have originated at a single point of infinite density and finite time that began to expand. After the initial expansion, the theory maintains that Universe cooled sufficiently to allow the formation of subatomic particles from that super hot energy, and later simple atoms.

Giant clouds of these primordial elements later coalesced through gravity to form stars and galaxies.

This all began roughly 13.8 billion years ago, and is considered to be the age of this generation of the universe.

Russian physicist and mathematician Alexander Friedmann, in the early 1920s, became the first person to embrace the idea that the equations of Einstein’s general theory of relativity called for a universe in motion.

The Friedmann universe begins with a Big Bang and continues expanding for untold billions of years—that’s the stage we’re in now. But after a long enough period of time, the mutual gravitational attraction of all the matter slows the expansion to a stop. The universe then starts to fall in on itself, replaying the expansion in reverse. Eventually all the matter collapses back into a singularity, in what physicist John Wheeler likes to call the “Big Crunch.”

Have you read up on "The Great Attracter?" and when the galactic clusters began to be gathered together by their own mutual gravitational attraction.

As I said previously the birth from the origin, is the beginning of the long journey of the return to the origin.

In reference to the eternal oscillating universe.

“According to the ancients, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy.”

The Hindu's and Buddhists have named the eternal, "Brahman', the root to which word, originally meant 'SPEECH'. while the Christians call the eternal 'The Logos' which is translated as 'WORD'. In all cases, He is seen as the essential reality of the universe, the eternal and divine spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity, or each generation of the Universe.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being too non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds would seem as an eternity, or but a moment in time.

‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day, a period of universal activity of light and life, as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis. ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next day or period of universal activity, and is seen as the period of rest for the “GREAT THOUGHT’. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis 2: 4; as the “GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth,” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; it is written concerning the six days of creation; “These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.” And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection, are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles of endless rebirths that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Enoch the righteous, wrote that God created an ‘EIGHTH’ day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one aeon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in Space-Time, but not in our three dimensional time.

A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

Each generation of the universe developing within itself 'A Supreme Personality of Godhead', the cosmic gathering of "THE SONS OF GOD."

I've asked you again and again to provide a citation from a reputable source. You have not done so. You provided a paper by a lawyer. You claim something is correct physics but cannot come up with a single source from an actual science journal or encyclopedia. You say:

"But you don't want to believe the words of our top scientists in the field of quantum physics."

What does that have to do with anything? You haven't given me a citation to any actual scientist saying that atoms are made of energy and have no physical structure.

In the world of debate, someone who makes a claim and can produce no evidence is called the loser. Until and unless you can provide a citation to the words of some actual physicist verifying your claim, you lose.

citations= quotations from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work.

So, you don’t believe that Niels Bohr, Richard C Henry, Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, Sir James Jean, or our leading scientists of today, are reputable sources.

Do you believe that Niels Bohr the Danish philosopher and physicist who made foundational contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1922, didn’t say “If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.”

YES, or NO? If NO, then please supply evidence that he didn’t?

Do you believe that the following was a statement by Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University “Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.”

YES, or NO? If NO, then please supply evidence that he didn’t.

Do you believe the revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, but instead, comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves which stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, among others.

YES, or NO? If NO, then please supply evidence that this is not the case?

Do you believe that the Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like 'A GREAT THOUGHT' than like a great machine. WE ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter.

YES, or NO? If NO, then please supply evidence that he didn’t?

Do you believe the leading scientists of today, who claim that all matter is composed of the energy that was spewed out in the event we call 'The Big Bang' when the universal temperature was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist.

YES, or NO? If NO, then please supply the evidence of what you believe the universal temperature was at the instant of the event that is called the Big Bang, and from what you believe the universe originated, and ‘IS’ and will return to?

You have your citations= quotations from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work.

quarks and photons, the foundation of Atoms are not physical matter. Wake up to yourself and accept the truth that this universe and all herein is ‘THE GREAT THOUGHT’ which is the collective consciousness of all that HE, the eternal energy has become.

The root to the word “BRAHMAN” originally meant “SPEECH”, much the same as the “LOGOS” is said to mean ‘WORD.

The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc (R.V.X.114.8), and has hymns in praise of Speech as the Creator (R.V.X.71.7) and as the final abode of Brahman (R.V.I.164.37). Time is the creative power of Shabda Brahman.

Just as our words are the audible expression of the invisible mind=spirit that is we, the visible universe is the word=expression of the invisible ‘Great Thought.’

The Greek word “LOGOS” which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the eternal mind which are to be expressed.

The term, “LOGOS” pertains to the very plan from the outset. The creation of a universal body in which a Supreme mind or personality of Godhead to that body, develops. A Universal and eternal ‘Son of God’ who, although each SON occupies its own individual position in Space-Time, is able to visit all the other universal Sons of the eternal Logos.

In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vac.' Vac means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vac has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as ‘A THOUGHT,’ and not as the spoken word or speech.

“Ptah, is an Egyptian creator god who existed before all other things and, by his will, ‘THOUGHT’ the world into existence. It was first conceived by ‘Thought’, and realized by the Word:”. . . . . . . . . . The Logos=Word: Brahman=Speech.

John 1: 1; In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was God. And the supreme personality or controlling mind to have developed within the invisible eternal body of ever evolving information, was “THE LIGHT OF MAN” All the information, knowledge, wisdom and insight, gained from the body of mankind, the MOST HIGH in the previous creation, who was the Light and life of that ever-growing body of information, which is called God. All things came into existence through him, by him, and for him. Without him, (THE LOGOS) nothing exists.

Both BRAHMAN and LOGOS, are the essential reality of the universe, the divine and eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity.

These words are not for the blind who refuse to see, but for the browsers who visit these forums in search of truth.

I believe that Niels Bohr, Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg are reliable sources on this subject. If you can produce a quotation from any of them stating that atoms have no physical structure or are energy and not matter, I will absolutely admit that you based your opinion on something real. Please furnish such quotations.

What physical qualities do photons have?

You teased me with how all these scientists agree with you, so quote one of them saying that atoms have no physical structure and/or are composed of energy not matter. I'm very tired of begging you to give a citation. Give me a quotation from one of them backing you up, as you claimed they do, or you lose the argument and I'm done with you.