4
   

Why is the Forum...so DEAD?

 
 
SkippyPeanutButter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 02:01 pm
@engineer,
Are people allowed to tell the truth, even if the mainstream media doesn't jive with it?

Example, last year at this time people were being removed from facebook for stating that covid was man made. Now that seems to be ever more likely.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 02:11 pm
@SkippyPeanutButter,
You can find Covid deniers here to continue your example. As long as you don't spam all the threads you'll be ok. Of course other posters will express their opinions as well.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 02:34 pm
@SkippyPeanutButter,
Quote:
Example, last year at this time people were being removed from facebook for stating that covid was man made. Now that seems to be ever more likely.

Not really. It's a possibility but it's more likely that it was a naturally occurring virus and if didn't spread directly from animal to humans and was being studied in a lab (which is legitimate research) poor lab practices could have infected the researchers. When this theory was first proposed there were no signs that it had been modified by human activity.

Trump’s Supporters Are Getting the Lab-Leak Story Backwards

If their thesis is right, it points to a course opposite what they propose.

Quote:
Suppose it’s true. Suppose the coronavirus spread throughout the world from a Chinese lab. What then?

A ferocious early promoter of the idea that the coronavirus was a Chinese attack was the Trump White House’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon. Bannon hoped to transfer responsibility for Donald Trump’s failures onto China’s rulers. As he told a Polish interviewer in May 2020: “They are totally, 100 percent culpable for every death, for all the agony, for all the economic carnage.”

After months of belittling the virus, then-President Trump himself briefly endorsed the Bannon line. “We went through the worst attack we’ve ever had on our country; this is the worst attack we’ve ever had,” he said in May 2020. “This is worse than Pearl Harbor; this is worse than the World Trade Center. There’s never been an attack like this.”

Trump’s early attempt at blame-shifting collapsed, however, because it contradicted a deeper and bigger message from the president and those around him: that the virus was no big deal, nothing to worry about, no reason to close the economy.

You can see the two imperatives hilariously struggling against each other in a February 2020 Rush Limbaugh monologue:

It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump. Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. (interruption) You think I’m wrong about this? You think I’m missing it by saying that’s … (interruption) Yeah, I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.

The drive-by-media hype of this thing as a pandemic, as the Andromeda strain, as, “Oh my God, if you get it, you’re dead.” Do you know what the—I think the survival rate is 98 percent. Ninety-eight percent of people [who] get the coronavirus survive.


Then, immediately following:

It’s a respiratory-system virus. It probably is a Chicom laboratory experiment that is in the process of being weaponized. All superpower nations weaponize bioweapons.

Then, pivot again:

It’s really being hyped as a deadly Andromeda strain or Ebola pandemic that, “oh my God, is going to wipe out the nation. It’s going to wipe out the population of the world.”

The stock market’s down like 900 points right now. The survival rate of this is 98 percent! You have to read very deeply to find that number, that 2 percent of the people [who] get the coronavirus die. That’s less than the flu, folks.


So the coronavirus is a sinister “Chicom” bioweapon—that is also almost completely harmless, and nothing for the stock market to worry about? Even by the roller-coaster standards of Trumpworld, that was a head-snappingly confusing propaganda line.

It’s no big deal.

It’ll go away on its own.

Reopen the economy by Easter.

Sunlight and cheap antimalarial drugs will cure everything.

Don’t blame Trump.

Hate China instead.


The only way to sort the confusion is to remember that different people in Trumpworld cared more or less about different parts of the message.

Trump himself was only intermittently interested in stoking anti-Chinese feeling. In January and February 2020, he repeatedly praised the Chinese leadership. He downplayed the spread of the virus, resisted doing anything that might spread alarm, hurt the stock market, and endanger his reelection message as he imagined it to be. “I like the [coronavirus case] numbers being where they are,” Trump said in early March to explain why he had refused to allow passengers from a stricken cruise ship to disembark. “I don’t need to have the numbers to double because of one ship.”

Only in March 2020 did Trump adopt anti-Chinese language. That language did not deliver political results, however, and so at the end of March, Trump announced that he would stop. He occasionally resumed, as in his May remarks about an “attack,” but he mostly left the “blame China” message to political surrogates and Fox News talking heads. Trump’s own core message was virus minimization, a message inconsistent with anti-China finger-pointing.

But other Trump allies were interested in stoking anti-China feeling, and not only as an excuse for Trump’s failures, but as a goal in itself.

Senators Tom Cotton and Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo: They were not concerned with protecting Trump. They had agendas and interests of their own to advance last year, above all an intensification of conflict with China.

Whether Trump won or lost in November—and maybe especially if he lost—
the coronavirus could become the supreme justification for a radically more confrontational policy toward China. Better still, it could provide a basis for a culture war here at home, against scientists, against the legacy media, against the Biden administration.

But the facts were not friendly to those who wanted to use the lab-escape idea to inflame relations with China. The bioweapon story almost instantly disintegrated. By March 2020, it was clear that if China had done something wrong, it was a failure of care and safety—not an act of aggression or malice. Perhaps the Chinese had collected virus specimens, neglected to take proper care of them, and then lied about it. That would be a grave and deadly failure, if it indeed happened. But such a failure by China, if real, would point to a U.S. policy exactly the opposite of the one urged by the China hawks.

China may not be a superpower equal to the United States, but it is definitely too big to bully. If some Chinese failure led to the COVID-19 pandemic, the United States is not about to send gunboats up the Yangtze to extort reparations. If Chinese labs are unsafe, the United States and the world must find a way to induce China to improve their safety. And that imperative implies more cooperation with China, not less. It implies more binding of China to the international order, more cross-border health-and-safety standards, more American scientists in Chinese labs, and concomitantly, more Chinese scientists in American labs. There is no “America First” response to a pandemic. If the pandemic did spread because of Chinese secrecy and paranoia, then “America First” would be an even more useless and dangerous policy than it already seemed.

It’s not all kumbaya. China may have to be harshly pressured into meeting new international obligations. But if the lab-escape hypothesis is true, or even partly true, it serves notice: We are all more connected to one another than we ever imagined, and the truculent nationalism advocated by Trump and his supporters is pointless and self-harming.

Under its present regime, China and the United States may not be friends. But they are doomed to be partners dealing with a range of risks, from viruses today to climate change tomorrow. Scientific communities will have to share more information, not less. Political leaders will have to find ways to work more closely, not less. We need to get to the truth of the coronavirus. High among those truths: Like it or not, we dwell in one global ecosystem, in which national chauvinism long ago ceased to be an adaptive behavior.

theatlantic/frum
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 04:09 pm
@SkippyPeanutButter,
SkippyPeanutButter wrote:
Are people allowed to speak freely here?

That depends. Name-calling directed at the Bidens is removed while name-calling against Mr. Trump and his family is encouraged.

Posts calling Mr. Biden out on his creepy and predatory conduct towards young women are often removed as well.

And sometimes conservative-started threads are locked for no apparent reason.

But many truthful arguments that progressives would like to suppress are allowed to stand here.

If you make logical arguments instead of spewing name-calling (even though progressives spew name-calling themselves), and if you post in existing threads instead of starting new ones, it is possible to successfully post the truth here and ruin the progressives' day with the facts.

When I say post in existing threads though, don't go way off topic. Don't try to hijack a thread about crossword puzzles and make it about politics. Find an existing thread about politics and talk about politics there. The "monitoring Biden and current events" thread is a good general political thread if a more specific one is not available.

And don't try to carry the same argument across every single political thread on the site. Often there are several threads with the same argument on them, and that seems to be all right. But people who try to raise the same topic on thread after thread after thread all across the site have been suspended for "soapboxing" even when it was reasonably on-topic for each of the threads.
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 04:31 pm
@oralloy,
I don't think I agree with this.

Mind you, I've not been back here long and likely haven't been on the threads you're talking about, but in all the time I have been here, the mods seem to adhere to the TOS.

I do think you're a little skewed on this topic, so I don't think you should be preferring opinions and advice about it. Rather, refer people to the TOS or the moderators.

At any rate, people will find out for themselves without your 'helpful, one-sided' opinions.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 05:17 pm
@Mame,
What part do you think I'm wrong about?
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 05:20 pm
@oralloy,
This:

That depends. Name-calling directed at the Bidens is removed while name-calling against Mr. Trump and his family is encouraged.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 05:23 pm
@Mame,
There is an actual thread here dedicated to name-calling against Mr. Trump.

https://able2know.org/topic/544501-1
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 05:39 pm
@oralloy,
Okay... but the thing is, none of those names are so bad, and probably true. He's been known to stiff his contractors and not pay his taxes, so Dodgy Don is probably a truism. And Disgusting Don could refer to his 'pussy' comments and sleeping around, among other things.

The thing is, Donald Trump name-called a lot, himself. Sleepy Biden, for one. Corrupt Hillary.

Actually, here's a whole page of them, from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nicknames_used_by_Donald_Trump

So... tit for tat, maybe?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2021 05:42 pm
@Mame,
Whatever the justification is, a2k does allow the thread. So that's a double standard.
0 Replies
 
TruthMatters
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2021 11:50 am
"Within reason"? Religion?
0 Replies
 
 

 
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