CFB Gagetown area sprayed with lethal chemicals

Maine guardsmen threaten to pull out of Gagetown
Soldiers worried about exposure to Agent Orange

Article published: Jul 1, 2005
BY RICHARD ROIK
Telegraph-Journal

The head of the Maine National Guard says his soldiers will not train again at CFB Gagetown until he is convinced there is no lingering risk from the testing of Agent Orange at the base 40 years ago.

Maj. Gen. Bill Libby added Thursday that he has asked his staff to start looking for alternate training sites in case federal environmental tests at the base this summer confirm potential health dangers.

"My judgment tells me there's some level of risk," said Maj. Gen. Libby, who saw action in the Vietnam war, where Agent Orange earned its notorious reputation as a highly toxic defoliant.

"Before we return to Gagetown I want our government to co-operate with the Canadians - to take a look at the data that I know they're going to collect from the sampling they're going to do - and make a judgment for us," he added. "I do know as a Vietnam veteran that Agent Orange and Agent Purple are nasty substances."

Maj. Gen. Libby stressed, however, that he's not an expert on dioxins. He also pointed out that even after he learned last month that Agent Orange and Purple had been tested at the base in 1966 and '67, he still let his soldiers complete the final 24 hours of their two-week training exercise at the base.

But in his dual role as head of Maine's Department of Defense, Veterans and Emergency Management, Maj. Gen. Libby said he has a responsibility to get answers for the worried Maine soldiers and veterans who have started calling his office.

"I think we have an obligation to our soldiers who are current and past, and who are concerned enough to call in," he said.

A spokeswoman for Canada's Department of National Defence confirmed Thursday the federal government has "made contact with officials in the United States to better share information."

Capt. Holly Apostoliuk said she could not elaborate on the nature of those talks, or whether the department was trying to reassure nervous American military officials. But, she added, "I think I must point out that Canadian Forces soldiers continue to live at and train in CFB Gagetown."

The federal government is also expected to announce shortly "additional measures" for dealing with residents around the base who are worried about their potential exposure to the various toxic defoliants.

Renée Filiatrault, a spokeswoman for federal Defence Minister Bill Graham, would neither confirm nor deny speculation Thursday that Ottawa is working on a process for civilians to file claims for financial compensation.

She would only say that the new measures - on the heels of a highly charged public meeting at the base last week - are about "establishing a way forward on what the facts are.

"Any action we take is going to be in the best interest of the people of Gagetown," she added.

Mr. Graham has previously expressed a willingness to look at a government-wide program for dealing with civilian claims. Several key ministers with a stake in the file also met this week to discuss the government's response.

"We've heard what the people of Gagetown said and certainly we're going to be, in the coming days, announcing further measures," Ms. Filiatrault said.

One of the keys will be the promised federal testing for dioxins in the soil, vegetation and water at CFB Gagetown. Karen Ellis, an assistant deputy minister in the Department of Defence, told a parliamentary committee last week it is doubtful the tests will turn up anything since samples taken 20 years ago found no traces of dioxins.

"I'm not sure we will find much," Ms. Ellis said. "Our understanding of the science and chemistry is that it breaks down very quickly."

But Maine's Maj. Gen. Libby said he isn't so sure, and some of his soldiers and veterans are worried about their potential exposure during their training sessions that began at CFB Gagetown in 1971.

While he said he has learned enough about dioxin to know it occurs naturally in the environment, Maj. Gen. Libby said he also knows "it has a long half life, if you will. It doesn't just wash away with the first rain.

"I'm led to believe dioxin accumulates in the environment rather than disappear," he added.

That's a problem, Maj. Gen. Libby said, as he plans for several units to return to CFB Gagetown in June and August 2006 for two-week training stints. He said results from the federal tests could take awhile to come back and, if they prove positive, he doesn't want to be left with little time to find alternate training sites.

"As a preliminary step, we're looking for other training areas," he said. "But our goal is to return to Gagetown because it provides excellent training opportunities for us."

Source[/color]

St. John's woman wants Agent Orange compensation

Last updated Jul 14 2005 08:36 AM NDT
CBC News

A St. John's woman has joined a class-action lawsuit filed against the federal government over exposure to toxic chemicals sprayed at a military base on the mainland 40 years ago.

Lillian Williams and her young family lived at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick in the 1960s.

Claiming exposure to toxic chemicals used by the military is to blame for her family's subsequent poor health, Williams wants compensation.

An adult son died of a tumour around his spinal cord, and a teenaged daughter had a brain tumour removed.

Williams and two of her sons have type 2 diabetes.

"I'm just hoping that government will have to pay for what they've done and help out the people who are really sick," she said.

The Canadian military acknowledges the U.S. Air Force did test the defoliants Agent Orange and Agent Purple at the base, but on a small scale.

The lawyer representing Williams, Tony Marshall, said more chemicals were used over a longer period of time.

"The government only admits to 1966 spraying and 1967 spraying, notwithstanding Access to Information documents which show they were spraying from 1956 to 1984," he says.

Court documents don't specify the amount of damages being sought through the suit.

Source[/color]

Gagetown tests may take until fall

Last updated Jul 27 2005 11:37 AM ADT
CBC News

Environmental testing at CFB Gagetown might not be completed until October, a military official said Tuesday.

The Department of National Defence promised the tests after concerns were raised about past use of the chemicals Agent Orange and Agent Purple on the base.

Last month, federal officials held a public meeting at Gagetown, where an angry crowd demanded information about the extent of chemical spraying there in the 1950s and 1960s.

The tests were supposed to be done this summer, but it now appears they may take longer to complete.

The Department of Defence committed to taking soil, vegetation and water samples to determine if there is dioxin contamination at CFB Gagetown.

Col. Ryan Jestin says little can be done until the department finds a private company to do the testing.

"What I've said is that we're going to do it in the summer of 2005, but I will say that the summer of 2005 could probably be into September or October," he said.

"This is a very, very, very complex thing to do."

Results will be made available to the public when the testing is completed, but Jestin said it's still unclear when that will happen.

"The issue is that those samples have to be sent away to a laboratory to be assessed," he said. "So, we may not have results of the study probably before October."

Jestin also said he held a small meeting with citizens who told him where Agent Orange barrels may have been buried.

He said he'll investigate those claims in the coming weeks.

Source[/color]

Act fast on Agent Orange file: MLASource[/color]

After everything that's happened around Gagetown over the years, would you believe anything anymore that anyone from the base had to say?

Gagetown officials say herbicide no threat

Canadian Press
August 7, 2005

CFB GAGETOWN, N.B. -- Officials at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown say a herbicide spraying program on the base won't affect nearby residents.

The New Brunswick base will spray about 450 hectares of the base this month with glyphosate, commonly known as Roundup.

The spraying is part of a program to remove dense brush and reduce the risk of fires where live ammunition is used.

The base says the pesticide is safe and commercially approved.

The pesticide is not the same kind used to make Agent Orange, which was used at the base in the 1960s to clear thick brush.

Agent Orange, also used in the Vietnam War to clear dense jungle foliage, contains dioxin, which is now banned in Canada and thought to be associated with illnesses like cancer and diabetes.

Source[/color]

Contact Info for Comrade and More Forum Links


I had to respond to this comrade's request for info; link below for contact

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Reports/defoliant/index_e.asp

Thanks Reyn for following the story with such interest and concern for those affected. I served as a soldier infantryman in Gagetown from 1980-86. I believe I am one of those affected by the spraying. 2 years ago and at the age of 42 I was diagnosed with a rare cancer of the endocrine glands. The pancreas in my case. I'm lucky that the tumors are so slow growing they are considered benign. The cancer can be attributed to Agent White "Tordon 101".

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/dw_contamfs/hexachlo.html

The Hexachlorobenzene in Tordon 101 is highly toxic and was used extensively from 63-84. Scans of the docs proving this are on the www.agentorangealert.com website in the "Forum". They are documents obtained through the information act. DND and Ottawa have known this since the first eyebrow was lifted in the early eighties. They still stand on their lie that spraying was limited to the years 66-67.

I'd like to pass on a couple other "Forum" links for your members to peruse and possibly comment. The 3rd link is of particular importance in that it's a petition to the PM Mr. Martin. I sure would appreciate it if you'd sign it and pass it along to your address books.

Army.ca = http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,27191.0.html

The RCR Assoc. = http://xsorbit27.com/users5/thercrassociationmessageboard/index.php/topic,85.0

Petition = http://www.petitiononline.com/aoalert/


Thank you all in advance,
Warm regards
Mack

Re: Contact Info for Comrade and More Forum Links

Hello Mack, and thanks for posting those links.

I feel that the Gagetown story is very important. I knew absolutely nothing about it prior to starting this thread. I came across a story published by the CBC News website. I think that this is half the problem. Many just don't know about it. I'm trying to do my bit here by keeping this story alive.

I've signed the petition that you posted. I hope others will do the same. Here is the link again:

http://www.petitiononline.com/aoalert/petition.html

And welcome to A2K, Mack. I hope you will come back and post again on any updates you may have. I'm also very interested in the civilians who worked around the base and residents who live in the area. Thanks again!

Agent Orange/Agent Purple/Agent White at CFB Gagetown
Hello

My name is Kenneth Dobbie and I am the lead representative in a class action lawsuit against the Canadian Government for criminal negligence in spraying Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White at CFB Gagetown.

I obtained the DND's own documents through the freedom of right to information and the doucuments are shocking.

They show that spraying of 2,4-D + 2,4,5-T started in 1956 and continued to 1964 covering over 50,000 acres. In 1964 there was a spraying accident which covered farmland for a distance of 29 kilometers which is 18 miles. The garden market farms had all their produce completely destroyed. I have the newspaper articles of the day, Aug 8, 1964 citing the fact that the Crown compensated the farmers with $250,000 for the loss of their crops. What is really disturbing about this are three things.

1) What happened to all the ruined produce, was it plowed under or given to livestock?

2) What kind of exposure to the food chain occurred, because as we all know Dioxin has a half life of just over 10 years in the soil. So what happened to all the produce produced on those farms over the years, where did it go? Who ate it? It is known that these market garden farms exported a lot of their produce to other parts of the province and even outside the province

3) The article quotes the engineer from the Canadian Forces who was running the project as saying:..."...I really don't understand why everyone is upset, it doesn't hurt animals or humans, it just sucks the juices out of the plants. It isn't like we haven't heard this complaint before, we are compensating the farms with $250,000. We have dealt with this in the past with fair and just compensation then and we will in the future.."

Going on, the government in 1964 invited the Americans to test their sprays to see if they were more effective. However due to budetary restrictions at the time, the tests were put off until 1966 and 1967. Both Agent Orange and Agent Purple were tested over a period of seven days involving less than 400 acres. This is admitted by the Canadian Government. However what they don't admit to is the continued spraying of CFB Gagetown from 1967 to 1984.

The documents provide a summary sheet entitled "Herbicide Spray Programme 1956 to 1984. After the spray accident in 1964 (by the way, all the farmers have since died of cancer), the government switched to Tordon 101 which is Agent White. It contained 65 grams of Picloram per liter and 240 grams of 2,4-D per liter. What was not disclosed was the Picloram was contaminated with Hexachlorobenzene which has been banned since 1985 because it along with Dioxin were declared to be highly dangerous to human health causing a wide range of diseases, cancers and disorders. The Canadian Government sprayed almost one million liters of Agent White over approximately 150,000 acres of CFB training area for a period of TWENTY years. In effect, our government and military had a deliberate spray program in effect 10 years before the Americans tested their few barrels in '66 and '67 and they continued spraying Agent White for another 18 years after the Americans had packed up and gone home.

These facts are all accessible by calling the Canadian DND freedom of information officer at 1-613-992-9560 and ask for file A-2004-00207, it is called the Agent Orange file. You will receive approximately 124 pages of which 47 have been whited out and are stamped Witheld, however the information you receive will show you that what I have posted above is true and is from the DND.

So for our government and military to keep on saying and alluding to the fact that the only spraying that occured was in '66 & '67 is a blatant lie. The documents speak for themselves and the documents were produced by the Canadian government and the Canadian military. How can they keep on denying the total amount of spraying.

Remember: 181,000 acres sprayed with 1.3 million liters of defoliants over a period of 28 years. No wonder thousands were exposed and poisoned.

To check this out further go to

www.agentorangealert.com

and read the posts in Forum. In fact, you can actually click on the summary document which I provided to the website. See for yourself the thousands of acres that were sprayed in each year, see the mixtures, see the cost per acre, see the kill ratio..they went for a 95% kill ratio. See the beginnings of death and misery for countless numbers of people.

I have nine major disorders and diseases all attributable to AO/Dioxin, AP/Dioxin and AW/Hexachlorobenzene. I had multiple exposures. I not only cut and burned the defoliated brush in a summer job on Base in 66 but I also travelled extensively throughout the base, trailriding, camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, swimming, eating the blueberries, apples, eating the trout and so on. At Christmas time, we all went out in the training area and cut our Christmas trees as there was no Christmas tree industry at the time. We stood these chemical trees in our living rooms for two to three weeks inhaling all the chemcials that these trees brought into our homes. Exposing babies, young children, housewives and visiting relatives. No wonder there is such a high incidence of cancers and disorders throughout family units that have been joining the class action lawsuit.

If you or a family member were in Base Gagetown...and you or a family member is sick or has already passed away, I would urge you to join the class action lawsuit. There is no cost to you for fees or disbursements. The firm is doing this solely on contingency. It is all explained in www.agentorangealert.com or you can go to www.merchantlaw.com and sign up there.

Remember Dioxin Kills

Kenneth Dobbie

Hello Mr. Dobbie,

Thanks so much for posting to the Gagetown thread that I started on this board. In case you didn't catch it, I reported on yourself in regards to this matter HERE. It's absolutely tragic what has happened to yourself and so many others.

I became interested in this story about 2 months ago when I read about it on the CBC News website. Prior to that, I had no knowledge of the lethal spraying that took place in the Gagetown base and area. That in itself is a tragedy that not many people seem to have heard about this important story.

I have carefully read over your excellent post and I encourage others to do the same to become aquainted with details that were not covered in the news articles that I have previously posted. You bring up good points that our government needs to fully address and inform all the people that were affected, and continue to be to this day.

I have already signed the petition regarding this issue. To others here, please, if you haven't already done so, would you consider doing the same? Here's the link:

http://www.petitiononline.com/aoalert/petition.html

Thanks again for dropping by, Mr. Dobbie. I hope you will return and keep us updated here if any new developments occur. I wish you all the best in your class action lawsuit. I hope it succeeds.

Hi Reyn

Thank you for your remarks in regard to my post. By the way, Mr. Dobbie is a bit formal, just call me Ken.

I have noted several places that you mention that the CBC dug up the story, actually it was me, but I don't take the credit for it, but together with Gloria Sellar, I am the person who started this all.

I have cut and pasted part of an email that I sent out to different people who wanted to know how this all began.

It follows as so:

I am not sure if you knew this or not, but I am the person who started all this by contacting the CBC in the first place with my story of civilian teenagers being exposed and poisoned by Agent Orange (AO). It really was a fluke because I live in Kingston, the local media covered the fact that the DVA had silently given compensation to Brigadier General Sellar who also lived here in Kingston and that they had given the compensation for being exposed to Agent Orange in CFB Gagetown when he was Colonel of the first battalion Black Watch. Since he lived here in Kingston, I saw in our local paper he had been compensated and then died two weeks after receiving his first compensation cheque, I got angry at the DVA.

Because my dad died in 1999 of a rare form of cancer that is attributable to AO, I thought that my mother should be entitled as well to a disability pension from AO poisoning because Dad had been very active in the training area in the late '50's and also again in the mid sixties. Dad was already receiving a disability pension from the DVA and my mother is extremely ill with end stage emphysema and she had given me power of attorney to act on her behalf last year. I have been battling the DVA for maintenance costs for yard work and snow removal because Dad was paying for these things when he died as he was totally disabled and not able to do those things. But because he was not registered with the DVA as paying these expenses, the DVA refused to give the benefit to my mother. I went all the way up the chain of bureaucrats right to the Minister last year and was still denied the benefit. Hence my anger with the DVA.

When I called the DVA on May 30, that is when all this started, I got the usual run-around but they agreed to send me an application kit for the AO compensation and I am following that with Dad's doctors for the DVA.

Anyway, I have been very ill for over 30 years with all the disorders that you know about now and I asked the DVA on May 30, who I should contact in relation to civilian teenagers being exposed to AO. Well, they had never heard that civilians were poisoned and they of course had no way of compensating a civilian.

Knowing that I had worked with the defoliated brush in '66, I persisted with my questions not only for me, but to bring it to someone's attention that there are approximately 300 other teens, at the time, who are out there somewhere in Canada or other places and are perhaps sick and dying or already dead and that no one knew of this. The DVA told me to contact my MP. Well, I did that and our MP is Peter Milliken, Speaker of the House, but I only got his secretary who said I should send a letter. Not being one to sit still about things I decided that I would call the Department of National Defence in Ottawa. Well, after a lot of voice mail hell and being passed from person to person I finally found an officer who dealt with out of the ordinary phone calls. I told him about the exposure of the teenagers and of course he had never heard of any civilians being poisoned either. He said he would get back to me, which I have learned over the years to mean probably never.

So I got mad.

I called the CBC in Toronto, and asked for the National News desk and was connected to an assignment editor who did not want to listen to my story, saying he did not have the time and to send him an email. I was not impressed.

So, I looked up investigative journalists for the CBC on the Internet and only came up with biographies, no email addresses or telephone numbers. Then I looked up the public affairs office for the CBC and went through more voice mail hell with them and finally I got a person in the public affairs office to listen to me about the civilian exposure. The person then said that I should talk with David Taylor, the Parliamentary Bureau Chief for the CBC. They told me that I would only get his voice mail and that he might get back to me. So, I called his private number that they had given me and much to my surprise I was connected to him.

I told him that I had a story of civilian teenagers being poisoned by AO in the mid sixties and he said "you certainly have my attention" and he listened for an hour as I told him everything. He said a reporter would call me in a few days. Well, Louise Elliott called me the next day, she is a CBC radio reporter and had never done anything with television. She listened and we talked for over an hour and she was recording on the phone. She said that she would like to come from Ottawa to my home in Kingston to interview me and I agreed. Then two hours later the Bureau Chief, David Taylor called me and asked if I would permit a CBC camera crew and producer to come with Louise to film me as well. So that is how it began, they arrived at 11 AM and didn't leave until 6 PM...then they decided to go to New Brunswick to follow my allegations and they spent five days uncovering the facts with the DND documents that I had given them. They came back to Kingston and interviewed my doctor as well. I was sick that day when they filmed me with my doctor and you might have seen parts of that.

Anyway, when they were in New Brunswick they contacted me five or six times a day for more information and I gave them more names of people to see and they started uncovering all the hidden documents about the defoliation of CFB Gagetown, that it had actually started in 1956 and didn't stop until 1985. They assigned six researchers to work in the New Brunswick public archives, the New Brunswick legislative archives, newspaper microfilms and also at the DND in Ottawa freedom of information office.

Louise and I have constant contact as she is still working on the stories in CFB Gagetown. Look for further stories as the months unfold. There is a lot more to tell. Check the website run by Art Connolly at

www.agentorangealert.com

So that is how it all began...now it is continuing

It would appear that Base Gagetown has had the policy in place since 1956 to clear the brush and forest by defoliation. The documents show that each year the mixture was strengthened as the military were not achieving their desired 95% kill ratio. So in 1964, they invited the Americans (who by this time had two years of spraying experience in VietNam) to test their chemicals on our base. But because of budget cut backs, it was not carried out until 1966 and 1967. This is all contained in the documents that I mentioned in yesterday's post.

The Americans sprayed only 2.5 barrels of defoliant over a seven day period in 66 & 67 covering less than 400 acres. And of course their chemicals were the same chemicals just that they were given names like Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White, Pink and so. These became known as the "rainbow" herbicides.

But we had a spray program in effect for ten years before the Americans came to spray their miniscule amounts, then we sprayed for a further 18 years after the Americans had packed their bags and gone home.

Keep watching the news because this is an ongoing story

Regards,

Ken Dobbie

Hi Reyn

Thank you for your remarks in regard to my post. By the way, Mr. Dobbie is a bit formal, just call me Ken.

I have noted several places that you mention that the CBC dug up the story, actually it was me, but I don't take the credit for it, but together with Gloria Sellar, I am the person who started this all.

I have cut and pasted part of an email that I sent out to different people who wanted to know how this all began.

It follows as so:

I am not sure if you knew this or not, but I am the person who started all this by contacting the CBC in the first place with my story of civilian teenagers being exposed and poisoned by Agent Orange (AO). It really was a fluke because I live in Kingston, the local media covered the fact that the DVA had silently given compensation to Brigadier General Sellar who also lived here in Kingston and that they had given the compensation for being exposed to Agent Orange in CFB Gagetown when he was Colonel of the first battalion Black Watch. Since he lived here in Kingston, I saw in our local paper he had been compensated and then died two weeks after receiving his first compensation cheque, I got angry at the DVA.

Because my dad died in 1999 of a rare form of cancer that is attributable to AO, I thought that my mother should be entitled as well to a disability pension from AO poisoning because Dad had been very active in the training area in the late '50's and also again in the mid sixties. Dad was already receiving a disability pension from the DVA and my mother is extremely ill with end stage emphysema and she had given me power of attorney to act on her behalf last year. I have been battling the DVA for maintenance costs for yard work and snow removal because Dad was paying for these things when he died as he was totally disabled and not able to do those things. But because he was not registered with the DVA as paying these expenses, the DVA refused to give the benefit to my mother. I went all the way up the chain of bureaucrats right to the Minister last year and was still denied the benefit. Hence my anger with the DVA.

When I called the DVA on May 30, that is when all this started, I got the usual run-around but they agreed to send me an application kit for the AO compensation and I am following that with Dad's doctors for the DVA.

Anyway, I have been very ill for over 30 years with all the disorders that you know about now and I asked the DVA on May 30, who I should contact in relation to civilian teenagers being exposed to AO. Well, they had never heard that civilians were poisoned and they of course had no way of compensating a civilian.

Knowing that I had worked with the defoliated brush in '66, I persisted with my questions not only for me, but to bring it to someone's attention that there are approximately 300 other teens, at the time, who are out there somewhere in Canada or other places and are perhaps sick and dying or already dead and that no one knew of this. The DVA told me to contact my MP. Well, I did that and our MP is Peter Milliken, Speaker of the House, but I only got his secretary who said I should send a letter. Not being one to sit still about things I decided that I would call the Department of National Defence in Ottawa. Well, after a lot of voice mail hell and being passed from person to person I finally found an officer who dealt with out of the ordinary phone calls. I told him about the exposure of the teenagers and of course he had never heard of any civilians being poisoned either. He said he would get back to me, which I have learned over the years to mean probably never.

So I got mad.

I called the CBC in Toronto, and asked for the National News desk and was connected to an assignment editor who did not want to listen to my story, saying he did not have the time and to send him an email. I was not impressed.

So, I looked up investigative journalists for the CBC on the Internet and only came up with biographies, no email addresses or telephone numbers. Then I looked up the public affairs office for the CBC and went through more voice mail hell with them and finally I got a person in the public affairs office to listen to me about the civilian exposure. The person then said that I should talk with David Taylor, the Parliamentary Bureau Chief for the CBC. They told me that I would only get his voice mail and that he might get back to me. So, I called his private number that they had given me and much to my surprise I was connected to him.

I told him that I had a story of civilian teenagers being poisoned by AO in the mid sixties and he said "you certainly have my attention" and he listened for an hour as I told him everything. He said a reporter would call me in a few days. Well, Louise Elliott called me the next day, she is a CBC radio reporter and had never done anything with television. She listened and we talked for over an hour and she was recording on the phone. She said that she would like to come from Ottawa to my home in Kingston to interview me and I agreed. Then two hours later the Bureau Chief, David Taylor called me and asked if I would permit a CBC camera crew and producer to come with Louise to film me as well. So that is how it began, they arrived at 11 AM and didn't leave until 6 PM...then they decided to go to New Brunswick to follow my allegations and they spent five days uncovering the facts with the DND documents that I had given them. They came back to Kingston and interviewed my doctor as well. I was sick that day when they filmed me with my doctor and you might have seen parts of that.

Anyway, when they were in New Brunswick they contacted me five or six times a day for more information and I gave them more names of people to see and they started uncovering all the hidden documents about the defoliation of CFB Gagetown, that it had actually started in 1956 and didn't stop until 1985. They assigned six researchers to work in the New Brunswick public archives, the New Brunswick legislative archives, newspaper microfilms and also at the DND in Ottawa freedom of information office.

Louise and I have constant contact as she is still working on the stories in CFB Gagetown. Look for further stories as the months unfold. There is a lot more to tell. Check the website run by Art Connolly at

www.agentorangealert.com

So that is how it all began...now it is continuing

It would appear that Base Gagetown has had the policy in place since 1956 to clear the brush and forest by defoliation. The documents show that each year the mixture was strengthened as the military were not achieving their desired 95% kill ratio. So in 1964, they invited the Americans (who by this time had two years of spraying experience in VietNam) to test their chemicals on our base. But because of budget cut backs, it was not carried out until 1966 and 1967. This is all contained in the documents that I mentioned in yesterday's post.

The Americans sprayed only 2.5 barrels of defoliant over a seven day period in 66 & 67 covering less than 400 acres. And of course their chemicals were the same chemicals just that they were given names like Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White, Pink and so. These became known as the "rainbow" herbicides.

But we had a spray program in effect for ten years before the Americans came to spray their miniscule amounts, then we sprayed for a further 18 years after the Americans had packed their bags and gone home.

Keep watching the news because this is an ongoing story

Regards,

Ken Dobbie

Hello again, Ken. :wink: Thanks for checking back again to this forum.

Thanks also for putting the record straight that you got the ball rolling on the story and not the CBC. From your account, you should have been given credit within the initial story. I suppose they did give you some mention and ran your photo in a subsequent one. Probably the best you're going to get. I am impressed with the tenacity with which you have pursued this important issue and hung in there waiting for someone to listen.

I find it very sad that so many youngsters got exposed to these chemicals while working on summer jobs, etc. Like you mentioned, of course it didn't end there. There were all the other activities one would do while in the outdoors.

Now, I believe in one of the previous stories that I posted, there is talk of tests being done on the current state of affairs of the chemicals in the environment. Have you heard anymore about that?

My thoughts on this, too, would be, what about the drinking water in the area? The various chemicals would still be very present in the soil. Would they not have leached into the water table and possibly into the drinking water? This seems like a very urgent issue that should be dealt with on a high priority basis.

Somewhere, of course I can't find it now, I posted and or read a story about a town in the U.S. that had been sprayed with Agent Orange, etc, and water had been contaminated. It was so bad, that everybody was bought out and relocated. The town and area became a ghost town, and was subsequently fenced off. Have you ever heard this story?

Anyway, below is the latest article that I have come across about Gagetown. It has to do with compensation.

Hope to hear from you again, Ken.

Gagetown soldiers want disability pensions

Canadian Press
Monday, August 15, 2005

FREDERICTON -- Close to 700 disability claims are in the works relating to the Agent Orange controversy at a military base in New Brunswick, but Ottawa says it's not going to rubber-stamp requests for compensation.

Janice Summerby of Veterans Affairs Canada said Monday that 688 applications have been sent so far to people who say they were harmed by the use of toxic defoliants at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in the 1960s.

To date four applications for monthly disability pensions have been approved, two relating to Agent Orange use at Gagetown and two others to service in Vietnam, where the powerful dioxin-contaminated defoliants were widely used to clear jungle foliage.

Three other Gagetown veterans who thought their symptoms were caused by Agent Orange have been given disability pensions for other reasons.

Summerby said several applications have been refused.

She said Veterans Affairs needs proof and won't hand out money to people without clear evidence of exposure and harm.

"We're considering the claims on the basis of exposure likely to constitute a health threat,'' Summerby said.

"That's fairly direct exposure, usually through inhalation, ingestion or skin contact.''

She said all of the claims coming into Veterans Affairs are from former members of the Canadian Forces, not current members.

The majority of claimants say they were exposed because they were in an area after it was sprayed, or they handled barrels of Agent Orange and other defoliants during several days of testing at the sprawling New Brunswick base in 1966 and '67.

Some applications came from relatives of deceased soldiers.

Kenneth Dobbie of Ottawa said he filed an application for the disability pension on behalf of his mother, claiming his late father's cancer and other medical problems were caused by exposure to Agent Orange during service at Gagetown.

"We're seeing entire families wiped out by cancers, brain disorders and bowel disorders,'' said Dobbie, who worked at Gagetown as a civilian and believes his health problems were caused by Agent Orange.

"They all have the same common thread. They were all at CFB Gagetown in the 1960s and '70s.''

Dobbie and several others have filed a class-action lawsuit against the federal government because of Agent Orange exposure.

He said that in addition to establishing a $500-million trust fund for victims and their families, every person harmed by Agent Orange should be given $75,000.

Stewart McLeod of Springhill, N.S., is part of the lawsuit and also has filed for a disability pension.

McLeod blames Agent Orange exposure at Gagetown in 1967 for the many problems experienced by his 33-year-old, mentally handicapped son.

He is seeking money for his son.

"I can't fight it by myself,'' said McLeod, who was with the infantry in Gagetown. "The government is too big and too crooked.''

Meanwhile, the federal government is expected to announce this week its long-awaited action plan to deal with the Agent Orange controversy.

The plan to address human and environmental health concerns stemming from use of toxic defoliants at the base is expected to include a local office to gather, study and share information with concerned veterans and civilians.

The U.S. military tested Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White and other defoliants at Gagetown in 1966 and 1967 on fewer than 200 hectares of the training base, which occupies much of southern New Brunswick.

Defence officials insist the tests were controlled and small in scale and would not have harmed civilians in neighbouring communities.

However, military officials have admitted to using dioxin-contaminated defoliants on the base in the 1950s, '60s and '70s, as did forestry companies and provincial governments in many parts of Canada.

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Good to see, Ken, that you're getting some mention in this article.

Ottawa launches fact-finding mission into toxic defoliants at N.B. base

Chris Morris
Canadian Press
Wednesday, August 17, 2005

FREDERICTON (CP) - Federal officials say they're launching a fact-finding mission to uncover the truth about the use of toxic defoliants at a New Brunswick military base in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

Fredericton MP Andy Scott, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, announced a process on Tuesday to gather as much scientific and anecdotal evidence as possible concerning the spraying of such herbicides as Agent Orange and Agent Purple at CFB Gagetown in southern New Brunswick.

"I hope that people find the truth, whatever it is, and that the government, faced with that truth, will do the right thing, whatever it is," Scott said a news conference in Fredericton.

The fact-finding mission will attempt to identify who was exposed to the spray programs, what chemicals were used and possible health implications.

The information will guide Ottawa in future decisions concerning the Agent Orange controversy, including compensation.

However, the process may not be able to answer the fundamental question: were people harmed by the use of toxic defoliants at the base?

Scott said the fact-finding process, to be headed by former New Brunswick environment minister, Vaughn Blaney, will be open, public and flexible.

The mission does not have a fixed time frame, although Scott says much of the information should be collected within one year.

As well, the process, which is a collaboration of several federal government departments, does not yet have a budget or a total cost estimate.

Blaney said he doesn't even know how much he will be paid for his work as project co-ordinator.

"This will be a comprehensive, independent and open process," Blaney said.

"I will make every effort to make it scientific, social and community based. It will take as much time as necessary to do a thorough job. We will, hopefully, follow the trail of facts."

The lack of a time frame is of concern to veterans and civilians who are hoping to get quick decisions on compensation for health problems which they believe are linked to spraying such toxic defoliants as Agent Orange.

The powerful herbicide, widely used to clear jungle during the Vietnam War, was tested at CFB Gagetown in 1966 and 1967, along with a rainbow of other potent herbicides.

Kenneth Dobbie, who worked on the spray programs in the 1960s as a civilian, said time is running out for people waiting for answers from Ottawa.

"From my end of things, time frame is a very relevant issue," said Dobbie who is battling several serious ailments.

"There are a lot of us who are sick and there are a lot of us who will never see the end of this. But our families will."

Herbicides have been in use at the sprawling New Brunswick training base since it opened in the early 1950s.

Dobbie said he is pleased that the fact-finding mission will look at the total use of herbicides, not just the controversial testing of Agent Orange and other war-related agents in 1966 and 67.

The fact-finding mission will incorporate the results of soil, water, air and vegetation tests currently being conducted at the base.

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How do we know...it's not just coincidence...
I know this doesn't have much to do with the agent orange issue. Just wanted to have my 2 cents put forward....

I lived in Gagetown for a number of years...well after the spraying of the dioxins. I was astounded by the number of people in the area who have, don't laugh, thyroid issues. Seemed like everytime I turned around another co-worker was going on thyroid medication. For a condition which effects between 6.6 to 9.9% of the population...I'd certainly be interested in knowing what the per capita % for thyroid disease is in Gagetown/Oromocto Area as it has always seemed high to me.

As well my husband has been a member of the Forces stationed in Gagetown..again well after the use of these dioxins, so we are pretty sure his issues do not relate to it...I'd like to tell a bit of his story...

When he was first stationed at Gagetown he was a healthy 27 yr old. After being stationed there for approx 1 yr his health began to decline rapidly. Over a period of Approx 1 yr he began having large cysts removed from his back & head (none of which, as far as we know,were tested for abnormalities) they were growing and being removed at the rate of approximately 1 every 2 months..long enough to grow become an issue and be removed. When I myself questioned why he was getting them..upon asking he was told.."Some people just get them."

Strangely enough....when he moved to a new building he stopped developing these cysts he apparently "just got"...here's the clincher...before moving he was working in an area where he was unknowingly exposed to radiation over the course of a 6 month period...beginning approximately 8 months after he moved to Gagetown. This apparently is just coincidental...

However when a swipe test was done in his work area...it was multiple times the permissable dosage.
Again apparently this had nothing to do with his issue and was just coincidental....

Coincidentally...he also was diagnosed during this period with a condition which caused the atrophy of the parietal cells of his stomach. A disorder generally not seen in anyone under the age of 60....he was 30 by the time he was diagnosed. The diagnoses took over 2 yrs.....

Coincidentally since moving from the area...he no longer gets the Cysts, those stopped when he changed buildings..and other than ( surprisingly enough) a Thyroid disorder discovered from old blood work done in Gagetown from his medical file..and of course his atrophic stomach....he has not developed any new medical issues involving his bodily organs....

Again...remember this is all coincidental..( If I sound bitter it's because I am)...

So my question is...when is enough...enough....

The men and women in our Armed Forces have sworn to defend our country and in doing so us. Do they not deserve the respect and treatment medically and otherwise we give to a civilian. If my husband had been a civilian with these issues cropping up under the same circumstances..we would have raised such a fuss..everyone would have heard us....and he would have been tested immediately..even at our expense to see what level of radiation was present in his body

But we're "Military" which means...no testing was done on him to see how high his true exposure was...and before the Radiation Safety Committee did their review of his work area..it was all cleaned up..never mind the months of exposure which had already occurred...

And for fear of losing his career..we must accept that...
"Some people Just do"

Re: How do we know...it's not just coincidence...

Thank you for your interesting post, Allaryanna.

Although you mention that all this happened well after the actual spraying, surely the various chemicals that were involved still persist in the environment in the area around the base. I understand that decades can go by and can continue to be a health problem.

I would say that you will probably never know what exactly caused the health concerns of your husband. It may be totally unrelated to the spraying. Perhaps other dangerious substances are being stored there. The fact that he has health concerns would not surprise me. What does surprise me (it probably shouldn't) is the fact that this base has not been shut down years ago.

The whole issue of Gagetown is a disaster of monumental proportions.

"Defence officials insist the tests were controlled and small in scale and would not have harmed civilians in neighbouring communities."

Ask the residents in the area where all their cancers and other diseases have come from. If one reads the previous articles in this thread, can the above statement from this story be believed? I think not!

Gagetown inquiry intensifies

Canadian Press
Friday, August 19, 2005

CFB GAGETOWN -- The man appointed to lead a fact-finding mission into the use of Agent Orange and other defoliants at a New Brunswick military base was given a tour Friday of a remote area where spent barrels of the toxic chemicals could be buried.

Vaughn Blaney, a former New Brunswick environment minister, travelled to Canadian Forces Base Gagetown only three days after he was handed the job as fact-finder by the federal government.

"I really believe that the government is going to be honest, truthful and do the right thing about this -- both on the cleaning up and on the compensation for the people who have been exposed," he said.

During his tour, Blaney watched as electronic scanners were used to search for buried barrels. The scanning has already found a couple of places where crews will later dig.

The potential dump sites were identified by veterans who were stationed on the base in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.

Almost 700 veterans have come forward to claim compensation for health problems they say are linked to exposure to the various defoliants used at the sprawling base.

The U.S. military tested Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White and other defoliants at Gagetown in 1966 and 1967 on fewer than 200 hectares of the training base, which occupies much of southern New Brunswick.

Defence officials insist the tests were controlled and small in scale and would not have harmed civilians in neighbouring communities.

However, military officials have admitted to using dioxin-contaminated defoliants on the base in the 1950s, '60s and '70s, as did forestry companies and provincial governments in many parts of Canada.

Source[/color]

The below 2 paragraphs have been taken out of a larger story, similar to the above one. See the source link for the entire story.

Veterans are in the process of applying for disability pensions based on their exposure to Agent Orange testing at the base.

Veterans Affairs Canada has sent out almost 700 applications in the past few weeks to people who believe they may have a claim. So far, four disability pensions have been awarded based on claims arising from Agent Orange testing at Gagetown.


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SCOTS GUARDS IN AGENT ORANGE POISON THREAT

Sunday Mail
Aug 21 2005
By Brian Lironi

HUNDREDS of Scots soldiers were exposed to Agent Orange - one of the world's most deadly poisons - on a military exercise.

The Army want to contact soldiers from the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards who served in Canada in the 1960s.

Agent Orange - blamed for tens of thousands of deaths during the Vietnam War - was sprayed on a military base in New Brunswick in 1966-67.

The poison causes horrific deformities and cancers, including leukaemia, respiratory problems, diabetes and blindness.

The Canadian government has paid compensation to servicemen who worked in the area and face hundreds of law suits from local residents who say they were also poisoned.

Now the Scots Guards Association wants men who served in New Brunswick in 1966 to contact them if they suffer from any of the illnesses linked to the deadly chemical.

Association secretary David Niven said: "The area that was most affected was Camp Gagetown, which the battalion used as a transit camp to and from the UK.

"Although it is nearly 40 years since we were there, there is a possiblitiy that some members of the battalion may have come into contact with this chemcial.

"If anyone knows of anyone who was in the batttalion at that time and who is now suffering from a rare cancer, we would urge them to contact us

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Contractors find potential toxins at military site, recommend further probing

GREENWOOD, N.S. (CP) - A defence contractor has recommended the military further investigate several dump sites a former soldier claims contained so many toxins he became sick with cancer.

A final report by MGI Ltd. suggests more work be done in "three areas of interest" where sub-surface metal anomalies were identified following an excavation of an area of Nova Scotia's Camp Aldershot.

"They found pieces of metal that were somewhere between the surface and two metres down," Capt. John Pulchny said Thursday at CFB Greenwood. "The next step will be to determine what that metal is."

Pulchny said the military is considering the recommendations from the Fredericton-based company and will decide in the coming months how best to determine what's in the ground.

That could include digging further test pits and drilling wells to take more samples, work the military hopes to complete by Christmas.

The area was also used as a landfill, so Pulchny said the metal objects that were detected could be non-toxic.

The investigation began following allegations by a retired soldier that he was ordered to bury barrels of a thick, toxic sludge he says caused several ailments including cancer.

Bill Coleman, a former army private, said that he and others were ordered in 1961 to bury drums of toxic chemicals they had dredged from the bottom of Peach Lake inside an artillery range at Camp Aldershot.

Coleman, 69, said he and his colleagues hauled up the barrels in the lake, causing an oily material to rise to the surface. On the third day, he noticed dead frogs and turtles in the lake, and a persistent burning in his eyes and face.

The military also recently tested samples of the lake water, but found only slightly increased levels of mercury. It plans further testing of the lake.

Coleman, who has lost many of his friends to cancer, said they recovered pieces of barrels and hauled them to an area to dispose of them. They then were ordered to hose down their truck and were given a change of clothes to replace the boots, gloves and oilskin clothing they had to wear.

Coleman said that six months after dredging the lake, he and some of his co-workers began to feel ill, lacked energy, and he developed sores on his head and hands.

Coleman, who has suffered from bowel, prostate and skin cancer, went to the training camp with the contractors to point out where he thought the burial site was located.

Coleman decided to come forward with his claims after consulting doctors and hearing about allegations of toxic exposure at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick. Several people there have said they were exposed to Agent Orange and other chemicals at the base in the 1960s.

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Here's an American point of view. It sure is under-stating the problem. It's becoming fairly obvious to everybody, I would think, that all the health problems are stemming from the lethal spraying of the various chemicals.

Again there's mentioning of the years 1966 and 1967. This problem goes back to the 1950s. Just ask Ken Dobbie.

Agent Orange Investigation Opens At Canadian Military BaseSource[/color]