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Religious Liberty

 
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2018 08:40 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Of course it's discrimination, but you can't punish people for moving to a different seat in a movie theater because they are racist or sexist or otherwise prejudicial and discriminatory. If they don't say anything or harass you in any way, they are just mean people and using passive aggression to get away with expressing hurtful hate in a way you can't do anything about, and that gives them power.

It's like when you smile and someone and they roll their eyes. You may have just been trying to be nice but they aren't required to return the kindness. They might think you're ugly or they might not like your racial characteristics or the way you dress or whatever but they are entitled to discriminate against you by not smiling back. Mean people suck but what can you do? Punish them for not smiling back?

Do you have some point to this? Is there some specific law you are referring to? Did congress pass some law you didn't like? Did the courts make some ruling you disagreed with? Was there a news story that you disagreed with or upset you? What argument are you trying to make?

Quote:
That's logical to me. If you walk into a baker with a full beard and stiletto heals and ask for their standard wedding cake, what basis do they have for denying you service? But they don't have to design the cake to specifications they aren't comfortable with.

As I stated, I think that was how the supreme court had ruled on that case. I'm not sure. I might be wrong. If you agree with the ruling, what are you arguing?
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2018 10:58 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Do you have some point to this? Is there some specific law you are referring to? Did congress pass some law you didn't like? Did the courts make some ruling you disagreed with? Was there a news story that you disagreed with or upset you? What argument are you trying to make?

I read an article recently that Pence and some others are pursuing further exploration of religious freedom, which I am for and I'm trying to engage in public discussion on the topic. I think there is a lot of misconstruing of freedom by making arguments claiming that the freedom to not support something, say public funding of birth control, constitutes some form of oppression; i.e. that one person has to pay into a fund for others' purchases because failing to do so is some kind of attack.

This defies the fundamental logic that if I do nothing for you, that is different from harming you. You may not be able to achieve certain things without my help, but that doesn't make it my responsibility to help you achieve them. It just depends on what it is. If you are starving and I have the ability to help you get access to food, maybe I have some responsibility to help you, but certainly not for non-necessities like birth-control.

Quote:

As I stated, I think that was how the supreme court had ruled on that case. I'm not sure. I might be wrong. If you agree with the ruling, what are you arguing?

Not arguing, discussing. Some people really feel that gay couples should have the right to ask a cake designer to design a gay-themed wedding cake and that the designer should be punished if they refuse and cite their religion/conscience.

To me, you have to respect if someone sees something as a sin, and not expect them to support it. Protecting people against discrimination is really important, so you have to distinguish between randomly discriminating against people in ways that have nothing to do with their sins and refusing to assist or contribute to those sins. So, for example, if someone really feels like supporting Trump is a sin, they could refuse to carry MAGA merchandise in their store but they shouldn't refuse people wearing MAGA clothing from shopping at their store, because people have a right to be treated fairly regardless of their political views.
laughoutlood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2018 12:57 am
@livinglava,
Let's cut to the chase.

You're a religious bigot who doesn't want to pay tax.

Should your hallucinatory hallelujah hooey man smite thee?
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2018 06:47 am
@laughoutlood,
laughoutlood wrote:

Let's cut to the chase.

You're a religious bigot who doesn't want to pay tax.

Should your hallucinatory hallelujah hooey man smite thee?

So, in other words, you think people should turn off the hearts, brains, and consciences and just shut up and work to pay whatever taxes are put on them by whatever authority?

Do you have any concept of independent thinking and liberty or is your entire ethical POV based on unquestioning subservience to authority?
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2018 08:17 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
So, in other words, you think people should turn off the hearts, brains, and consciences and just shut up and work to pay whatever taxes are put on them by whatever authority?


I don't a flying forkful of feculence whether or not you pay your taxes or want to wile away your wanton misogynistic moments drooling over denying those in need.

Quote:
Do you have any concept of independent thinking and liberty or is your entire ethical POV based on unquestioning subservience to authority?


I'm omniscient, go away, read your bible, and pray for forgiveness.



livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2018 08:39 am
@laughoutlood,
laughoutlood wrote:

Quote:
So, in other words, you think people should turn off the hearts, brains, and consciences and just shut up and work to pay whatever taxes are put on them by whatever authority?


I don't a flying forkful of feculence whether or not you pay your taxes or want to wile away your wanton misogynistic moments drooling over denying those in need.

Quote:
Do you have any concept of independent thinking and liberty or is your entire ethical POV based on unquestioning subservience to authority?


I'm omniscient, go away, read your bible, and pray for forgiveness.

I'm neither misogynistic nor heartless in general. People toss these kinds of labels around because they want to get their way and they want to use ridicule and hate to slam anyone who dissents.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2021 01:08 pm
mark
0 Replies
 
 

 
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