Why women did not earn livelihood like men in old times?This is true for almost all old cultures.

Postmodernists think that objective approach is not possible as humans have biases,inclinations,different life experiences and societies so their writings always will have influence of that.In philosophy,it is also said that all important things in human life are important because human mind assigns them importance,they otherwise do not have any importance.For instance,gold is precious for humans only,otherwise it is just a piece of rock for all other species.I believe that there should be questioning and deconstruction for achievement of better forms of knowledge.But I think if we consider all forms of human nature and experiences,then there is a truth.For example,if I believe that people are hypocrites and this is the truth then this is certainly not the truth.It can be my individual experience but other people may have different experiences too.So,the truth can be that there are hypocrites but honest people exist too.So,truth can be a broad range of statements,but it exists.

Closer to the thread subject, I was surprised to read this on the BBC website today:


http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/must_see/41727495/why-does-the-us-have-so-many-child-brides

The NYT rteported similar a couple of months ago: 11 Years Old, a Mom, and Pushed to Marry Her Rapist in Florida

The kind of thing you'd expect in Afghanistan...

It is what you would expect from many indigenous cultures where European colonial powers came to change them.

This includes African, Aboriginal Australian, and Native American cultures. Of course Afghanistan is part of the history of European colonization.

It is a bad habit to look down on the traditional practices of indigenous cultures. This is related to our history of colonization.

Many of these moral issues are difficult to resolve, but judging traditional practices of the indigenous cultures should at least give you pause.

I love Afghans. One of the reasons why I'm so found of them is precisely that they have NEVER been colonized by a Western power, contrary to what you seem to think. The Brits tried and failed, three times.

This history results in a people who's not impressed by the West. Unlike in an ex-colony where people always tend to either hate or love westerners (or both at the same time), Afghans are only mildly curious about us, as we would be slightly curious about some faraway tribe depicted on National Geographic, and then we close the magazine shrugging it all off.... No inferiority complex from them whatsoever. Going to a remote Afghan village in the Hindu Kush is like discovering an Amazonian tribe untouched by modern civilization: an absolute delight. I feel priviledged to have lived through that in my youth.

This being said, I see no reason why I should put my moral judgement on hold anymore than they do. While marrying an 11-yr old to her rapist would happen every now and then over there, Afghan culture does frown on it.

They have a proverb that says a young bride married to a much older man will never be happy: "the sweet carrot doesn't grow on the tall mountain".

(zardak-e-shirin sare koh-e-biland rui na mesha)

If you love and respect Afghans so much, why did you make the comment "The kind of thing you'd expect in Afghanistan..." based on a story of something that happened in the United States.

If someone had made the comment "This is the kind of thing you'd expect in France", I don't think you would feel loved or respected. It is a pretty nasty thing to say to plays on cultural stereotypes.

Because I know for a fact that these things happen in Afghanistan, but I was very surprised to see they happen in the US as well. I didn't expect that.

You can love people and still disagree with them occasionally, can't you?

But do you accept that you are making a judgement on part of a functioning traditional culture that goes back centuries and that you know little about. You are making these judgement on an indigenous culture based on modern Western values.

The case I know a little more about is Aboriginal Australian polygamous marriages. Their culture was wiped out by European colonizers, the debate over traditional marriage is still going on. One could suppose that had European colonizers never showed up, there is a real possibility that Aboriginal cultures would still be flourishing with marriage customs that worked for them.

The real question is had they had the guns and colonized Europe (instead of the other way around) might we be on opposite sides of this argument (with some trouble making Afgan or Australian Aboriginal troll arguing that traditional cultural practices of monogamy should be respected in European cultures).

There are issues of injustices in all regions of the world.At some places,there are more issues,at others there are very less.For instance,one hears that often that crime rates are low in scandinavian countries.So,one cannot generalize about any society based on rare issues.Yes,one can conclude from relative statistical reports.About u.s one hears that there are comparatively more crime against women.
This is so much off topic but anyways it is not a forum for robots.Yes,but if there are new questions in discussion then those questions can also be posted separately.

If Afghans themselves find it inapproriate, I don't see why I should feel bad about finding it inappropriate...

Why only those? What about those ... in Germany, France and other European countries?

I do not want to reply to anyone specifically but this forum may be does not allow an independent answer.
But why do I feel that my comments are being more ignored.May be I am an alien here. :-/
Discussion,I believe,should have respect,polite language,strong arguments and facts.And of course.tolerance.

I'm sorry if I sounded overly judgmental. It was not my intention to look down on Afghan or American cultures. Just wanted to show that on some issues at least, they may not be that widely different. E.g. Afghans love their guns too. I guess that goes some way in Max's direction.

Yes,I understand that you think that one should have an objective approach.But,I think that certain things are general too as humans have the same basic nature.For instance,if someone gets too much rude to someone else then that person will inevitably feel bad.Yes,afterwards then the behavior can be different depending on nature of the person that whether he ignores or responds.But there could not be cultural perspective to whether someone will feel bad or not if treated rudely.For instance,everyone will might enjoy eating a certain icecream,because there are taste buds which respond in a certain way,so there could not be a cultural perspective.

I do not think that anyone is being offensive.If someone tells a fact or opinion then it is not an offense.One can respond to that argument with another perspective or reasoning.It is discussion and one can try clearing concepts of others and know perspectives which one cannot think of.

Hi Student.

Be very careful when you say "certain things are general.... humans have the same basic nature". It is very easy for you to assume that things you take for granted based on the culture you grew up in are general, when people in other cultures have a very different view. Marriage customs are a perfectly good example of this.

In college I was assigned Kenneth's Good's controversial book called Into the Heart: One Man’s Pursuit of Love and Knowledge Among the Yanomama.

Good is an American anthropologist. As a adult man he went to live with this hunter-gatherer tribe which still follows traditional customs including child marriage. The tribal elder in the community in which he was living offered him a 9 year old girl to marry, a custom that is perfectly acceptable, even expected in the local culture. He accepted the offer (he claims he didn't consummate the marriage until she was 14 or so).

Obviously this type of marriage between an adult man and a 9 year old girl is deeply troubling in any Western cultural context. For the record... I think that what he did as a Western researcher was exploitative and immoral. However his insights on this culture are pretty important to the field, and the fact that child marriage worked so well in the context of this traditional culture raises important questions for anyone ready to question the meaning of their own culture.

If you have the chance to live (or even travel extensively) in another culture ... and I mean living in the culture accepting their lifestyle and point of view, I highly recommend it. It is the most educational thing a person can do. I was lucky to be born in one culture, and marry into another (with some time in a third).

While people are whining about their so-called "postmodernist" delusions (post-modernity is a linguistic oxymoron), it is worth pointing out that there is both archaeological and observational evidence for the importance of women in the foraging essential to successful hunting and foraging societies.

You know, in case anyone is interested in the topic allegedly under discussion?

Well all agree with you on that point Setanta. You keep making it over and over again even though no one is arguing with you about it.

We all agree you are right. Have a cookie.