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Holiday Icons

 
 
Seed
 
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:16 pm
So can someone tell me how in the world did people go from celebrating the birth of christ to waiting for a fat man to come down a chimmeny and give presents?

Or how did we go from celebrating the death and resserection of chirst to waiting for a gaint rabbit to come give us eggs?

I have an idea.. i dont know if I read it somewhere or if i thought of it on my own. (in all honesty i think i read it somewhere cus it seems a bit to smart for me to have come up with on my own)

That being that way back when christains were trying to convert the pageans that they took some of their ideas (i.e. the rabbit being a feritility god or goddess) and merged them with that of there own. This still doesnt explain santa though... can someone help me with this?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,014 • Replies: 13
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:24 pm
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38
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Seed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:28 pm
awesome thanks boomerang
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:40 pm
You are most welcome.

St. Nicholas has an interesting history.

I agree with the contention that it would be wise to celebrate his feast day with gifts and let Christmas center around the birth of Jesus.

The marketing department is sure to disagree!
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Seed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:45 pm
holidays--- made up by the greeting card industry i tell you!
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colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:53 pm
Seed wrote:
holidays--- made up by the greeting card industry i tell you!


Don't forget the retail and deptarment (help to make the season bright) stores, that are hoping to make big dollars every Christmas. :wink: Rolling Eyes
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Seed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 07:55 pm
oh yea the ones that play chirstmas music before thanksgiving
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 08:06 pm
Paganism will out.

My holiday is the solstice, but I suspect that a certain amount of the "commercialism" of the holiday season is due to a human need to balance the magnificence of the sacred with the glitter of the mundane.
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Seed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 08:08 pm
Noddy... what do you mean Paganism will out?
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colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 08:12 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Paganism will out.

My holiday is the solstice, but I suspect that a certain amount of the "commercialism" of the holiday season is due to a human need to balance the magnificence of the sacred with the glitter of the mundane.


Noddy, I like the way you versed that Smile
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 08:30 pm
Seed--

Most human beings are not comfortable living next door to the Absolute Divine. We're made of clay after all and the clay, the pagan, the humanness of our being needs the secular to balance the sacred.

Just the way "Murder will out"--i.e. not be hidden--so will paganism require expression during seasons of sacred celebration.
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Seed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 08:35 pm
oh i see ... i think i understand noddy...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 10:57 pm
The Christian Christmas tradition dates to not much earlier than the 4th Century. Late in the 2cnd Century, Clement of Alexandria, in his "Miscellanies", observed with some disdain that some "overly curious" Egyptian theologians had the temerity to assign not just a year but a day to the Nativity - that day being the 20th of May (25 Pachon in the Julian calendar) in the 28th year of the reign of Augustus (which would correspond to 1 AD). Other early Church writings place the date variously, every month of the year being represented, across a span encompassing the period of from 5 or 6 BC to anywhere from 4 to 7 AD. A more specifically defined and contemporaneously observed Christian feast was that of The Epiphany, celebrated through the second week of the month of Tybi, which would incorporate the familiar January 6 date assigned to that feast to this day (though apparently no year initially was assigned to the date being commemorated). Late 1st Century references to the feast abound.

No clear reference to the Nativity as a feastday exists until the 4th Century, during the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine. The Nicene Council of 325, convened by Christian convert Constantine, essentially the first authoritative effort at codifying Church Dogma and Liturgy, makes no mention of it despite referencing among other feasts and sacred days Easter and The Epiphany. The earliest date documented for the observance of December 25th as a Church-sanctioned feast is 336, and then it appears to have been celebrated as such only in and around Constantinople, then the seat of The Church. In the late 4th Century, the Bishop of Constantinople, St. John Chrysostom, lamented in a sermon that the meaning of sacred feast day had been overwhelmed by frivolity and the indulgence of base proclivities.

That contamination of the feast by such irreverence and wantoness would have been the case is wholly unsurprising; the date Dec 25th was that of the then-ancient-beyond-reckoning feast of Mithras, celebrating the Winter Solistice, observed in Roman culture since before there really was anything like a Roman culture. The key features of the celebration were the wearing of finery (with the colors of red, white, green, gold and silver predominant), the invoking of the indulgences of the gods upon the crops and livestock, the giving of gifts, and banquets devoted to feasting on seasonal meats, breads, and sweets, all accompanied by the quaffing of the finest and most potent of available libations and much singing and dancing, along with extravagant theatrics. Hardly an exclusively Roman feast, similar observances are known to have marked The Winter Solstice throughout the time for which we have record of mankind's socio-cultural development.

Some three and a half centuries ago, there was evidence of dismay over what had become of Christmas:

Quote:
THE TRUE CHRISTMAS

So, stick up ivy and the bays,
And then restore the heathen ways.
Green will remind you of the spring,
Though this great day denies the thing ;
And mortifies the earth, and all
But your wild revels, and loose hall.
Could you wear flow'rs, and roses strow
Blushing upon your breasts' warm snow,
That very dress your lightness will
Rebuke, and wither at the ill.
The brightness of this day we owe
Not unto music, masque, nor show,
Nor gallant furniture, nor plate,
But to the manger's mean estate.
His life while here, as well as birth,
Was but a check to pomp and mirth ;
And all man's greatness you may see
Condemned by His humility.

Then leave your open house and noise,
To welcome Him with holy joys,
And the poor shepherds' watchfulness,
Whom light and hymns from Heav'n did bless.
What you abound with, cast abroad
To those that want, and ease your load.
Who empties thus, will bring more in ;
But riot is both loss and sin.
Dress finely what comes not in sight,
And then you keep your Christmas right.


Henry Vaughn (1621 - 1695)


Yup - Christmas ain't what it used to be.

But then, that seems to be the way its always been Laughing
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2004 12:49 pm
Some christian churches were built directly about mithras (temples); St. Clement's in Rome, for example.
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