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The 'Forgiveness Pageant' Phenomenon

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 08:28 am
@snood,
Quote:
When a white person is murdered violently, do you ever see the FIRST reaction of white victim's families be to run out and pledge their forgiveness to the murderer?

I don't have examples at hand but unless my memory is wrong, there have been some, and not that long ago.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 08:34 am
@snood,
How could I have forgotten this one... There are others I found as well..
Quote:
On October 2, 2006, Charles C. Roberts walked into an Amish schoolhouse armed with three guns. There were 26 students in the schoolhouse. He allowed the 15 boys, a pregnant female student, and three other adult females with infant children to leave safely, but held the remaining 15 girls captive and tied their feet together.

Authorities were alerted, and soon arrived on the scene. Not long after police arrived, Roberts started shooting, killing three children and himself. Two more children died later from their injuries.

In the face of such tragedy, one can only imagine the hurt and anger the loved ones of the victims might feel. In an extraordinary demonstration of forgiveness, members of the Amish community, including family members of the deceased victims, attended Robert’s funeral and comforted his widow. The Amish community did not stop there—they also offered financial support to Robert’s widow.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 08:44 am
@Leadfoot,
The Amish are a special case, they really are. What's happening is that you're frantically trying to pretend America isn't as racist as it is. It's a comforting fiction, but it's still a fiction.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 12:01 pm
@snood,
I don't think that black churches and white church are teaching the same gospels. I've got what I've seen on TV to go by in regards to black churches, but they appear to be a lively experience and give a different experience to the worshipers there. I've been to several white churches of many denominations and have never seen the liveliness of what I think takes place at black churches.

I think most white folks look upon their religion as a duty they must perform. A task almost. I think black folks tend to look at their religion as a celebration of the lord and part of their lives. When you have the lord in your life deeply, and you hold those beliefs deep in your heart then forgiveness comes easy.

My signature line works very well with this post.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 09:28 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote McGentrix:
Quote:
When you have the lord in your life deeply, and you hold those beliefs deep in your heart then forgiveness comes easy.

No, it doesn't. Not when somebody has just shot and murdered your loved one. Your answer is facile.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2017 09:38 pm
Good God.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 05:27 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The Amish are a special case, they really are. What's happening is that you're frantically trying to pretend America isn't as racist as it is. It's a comforting fiction, but it's still a fiction.
Nobody is saying there is no racism in America (or anywhere else).

OMG, 'Amish a special case'. How far will these rationalizations and denials go to say that religious beliefs aren't a factor in forgiveness.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 05:31 am
@Leadfoot,
You're saying that the Amish are part of mainstream Christian white America, that they don't separate themselves from the rest of society.

Glad that's cleared up.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 05:41 am
@izzythepush,
No, I'm saying the Amish recognize the same God (with the same values) as black people do.

Where the hell did you get 'Christian white America' from in this conversation? What you lack in hyperbole you make up for in non sequitur.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 06:05 am
@Leadfoot,
Sorry I was under the illusion that you knew what was actually being discussed. Snood's point, as I understood it at least, was that such public displays of forgiveness are normally seen by black, not white, congregations. You claimed to have plenty of evidence to the contrary but chose the Amish who, unlike the congregation at the Emanuel Methodist Church, are not typical of mainstream Christian thinking for that particular demographic.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 06:23 am
@izzythepush,
Right, the Amish are virtually non-human so they don't count. Obviously there is no evidence that would convince you that religious beliefs have anything to do with extreme examples of forgiveness. It must be a 'black thing' according to you.

I could give lots of examples (Jews forgiving Nazis immediately after release from concentration camps, etc) but of course they wouldn't count for izzy either.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 07:27 am
@Leadfoot,
You really do make great leaps in interpretation. I never said they're virtually non human, I said they're hardly typical of mainstream white Christianity in America, while the congregation at the Methodist church are typical of mainstream black Christianity in America.

By going on about non humans and Nazis you've shown you cannot debate this seriously. I'll let you get back to your frothing at the mouth, I've got better things to do.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 12:48 pm
@izzythepush,
And izzy declares victory and goes home.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2017 02:55 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Okay, let's go for a moment with the assertion that the reason for their immediate, public, dramatic announcements of forgiveness come from their being "religious". How do you account for the fact that the only ones you see on tv making those personal absolutions of murderers are black people? Are white evangelical Christians somehow less religious? When a white person is murdered violently, do you ever see the FIRST reaction of white victim's families be to run out and pledge their forgiveness to the murderer? No, what we see are expressions of sorrow, and anger and a desire for justice. That is quite understandable, and human, and probably healthy.

These rushes to shower forgiveness on the perpetrators of violent crimes are not out of some self-nurturing religious faith.


In my own observations, white folk, that had a family member die, might make reference to the belief that he/she is looking down from Heaven at that moment that they are on camera? Would this imply that most Blacks being Baptist believe in Resurrection, rather than being in Heaven?

This "Forgiveness Pageant" that you have identified might have the positive result of taking white folks off of their "moral high ground high horse" with this forgiveness that others could not muster? As you well know, white folk have a short memory when they are the perpetrators of non-Christian behavior; just my Jewish opinion.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Apr, 2017 01:11 am
@Leadfoot,
There's no victory to be had, it's a discussion about race and forgiveness. You decided to go mental part way through. I've got an idea, why not start your own thread about how persecuted you white guys are.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Apr, 2017 01:14 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

There are others I found as well..


And we'll just have to take your word for it.

(Sorry, not being too harsh am I? Just to let you know I'm trying really hard not to persecute you.)
0 Replies
 
 

 
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