Peace in the ME under Trump? Perhaps.

Forums: Neo Imperialism, Me, Agent Orange
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There was a lot of fanfare about Netanyahu's visit to the WH and Trump's abandoning of the two state solution.

Quote:

The UN chief has warned Donald Trump against abandoning the idea of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saying there is "no alternative".

It comes after Mr Trump went against decades of US policy, saying he would back whatever formula led to peace.

Palestinians reacted with alarm to the possibility that the US could drop support for Palestinian statehood.

The last round of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks broke down in 2014.

Speaking alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday, President Trump promised to deliver a "great" peace deal.

But he said both sides must compromise.

"So I'm looking at two states and one state," he said. "And I like the one that both parties like."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38989906<br />

The idea that Trump can impose a solution on the Palestinians is risible, but I don't doubt he's vain, and ill informed, enough to think he can do it.

The truth is that the Israel/Palestine conflict is a sideshow, the real struggle in the ME is between Shia and Sunni. This is what underlies the recent wars in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. And it's what has allowed Israel to carry on building illegal settlements and persecuting the Palestinians, a policy of divide and rule.

This may be coming to an end. Here's a news story that doesn't appear to have been picked up by American media, but it may be one of the most significant developments to date.

Quote:

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani begins a one-day visit to Oman and Kuwait on Wednesday in a bid to lower tensions between the regional rivals as Tehran braces for increased pressure from the new US administration.

Mr Rouhani was scheduled to first meet Sultan Qaboos in Muscat before travelling to Kuwait at the invitation of the emir, Sheikh Sabah Al Ahmad Al Sabah, Iranian state media reported.

Last month, the Kuwaiti foreign minister, Sheikh Sabah Khaled Al Sabah, made a rare visit to Iran, where he delivered a conciliatory message from the GCC. "Gulf states have a true desire that relations with Iran are normal and based on international law," Sheikh Sabah said during his visit, calling for a "normalisation of ties and opening dialogue".

The GCC had agreed to a basis for talks with Iran at the annual summit in December, including ending interference in the internal affairs of Arab states and Tehran’s support for militant groups.

The Iranian president’s trip is the latest step in this tentative process of engagement between the GCC and Iran after the cold war between Saudi Arabia and Iran reached new heights last year.

Mr Rouhani stated his desire for normal ties with the GCC during his inauguration in 2013, and Iran’s minister Mohammed Jawad Zarif had called for a dialogue over the past year.

http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/iran-president-rouhani-visits-oman-and-kuwait

There is a realisation across the ME that the Jihadists may have a point. America isn't just anti-extremist, it's anti Muslim, and the election of Trump proves that. It's time to put internal fighting to one side and focus on the real enemy of all Muslims across the ME, modern day neo imperialism and American hegemony. Trump may well bring peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia, but it's not a peace that will benefit America at all.

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Great discussion subject, Izzy. I wish I was more educated on the middle east as regards the Sunni/Shia conflict but that is one of the many holes in my knowledge. I'm not sure who the site experts on this might be but I hope they help out here.

A singular notion I do hold to be true (perhaps minimally relevant to where you want to take this) is that if the Semitic homeland had been somewhere that had no oil under the ground, the US would care about it as much as they care about anywhere that has no resources they desire.

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@blatham,

Probably not. The Shia/Sunni conflict is almost as old as Islam, unlike the Protestant/Catholic split which happened long after Christianity was established or even the great schism, Catholic/Orthodox split that occurred a thousand years after Christ.

In a nutshell when the prophet died he had no male heirs. Unlike Christ he ruled over a vast empire. When he died there was a system of caliphs put in place to rule. This all went well until the prophet's daughter gave birth to a male heir (Ali.) The Shia wanted to put him in charge, but the Sunni wanted to keep the system of caliphs.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but those are the basics. Very few people have been able to unite both Sunni and Shia, one of the most notable exceptions was Saladin who threw the crusaders out of Jerusalem.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

There is a realisation across the ME that the Jihadists may have a point. America isn't just anti-extremist, it's anti Muslim, and the election of Trump proves that. It's time to put internal fighting to one side and focus on the real enemy of all Muslims across the ME, modern day neo imperialism and American hegemony. Trump may well bring peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia, but it's not a peace that will benefit America at all.

Sorry, to burst the bubble, but Europe is gaining adherents to right-wing parties, and Trump got elected because the Democrats have a global business plan that seems to care little if the middle of the U.S. has little employment, in my opinion. The concern about immigrants not only includes those from the ME, but so many others. Many Americans of a certain pursuasion might just be uncomfortable with many that don't smile at the American flag. In other words, in my opinion, the election mirrors a swath of the U.S. that thinks of the U.S. as a sovereign nation, with its own culture. Sort of like how Limeys like to talk about the Royals, or who they met at the pub recently. To each his own.

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@Foofie,

Quote Foofie:

Quote:

Trump got elected because the Democrats have a global business plan that seems to care little if the middle of the U.S. has little employment, in my opinion.

When Obama first took office,the country had LOST 6 Million Full Time jobs the previous year under Bush. In the last year, the country has GAINED over 2.5 Million Full Time jobs and 5 Million Full Time jobs in the past 24 months.

This "economy is in the dumps" business is a lot of baloney.

3 Replies

@Blickers,

Foofie has never brought anything substantive to the discussion. He lives in a world of smears and crude racial stereotypes. I put him on ignore a long time ago.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie has never brought anything substantive to the discussion. He lives in a world of smears and crude racial stereotypes. I put him on ignore a long time ago.

So, you don't believe in the validity of sociology?

Crude racial stereotypes are not the statistical truths of sociology. So, you might be "smearing" me when you misconstrue a sociological truth for a "crude racial stereotype." However, I think you make broad generalizations when you talk about "Americans" or "Israelis" in a pejorative manner.

By the way, "stereotypes" can also be based on culture, not race. It would be uneducated to promulgate a stereotype, based on race, in our DNA diverse world; however, cultural stereotypes are statistically valid for cultures. Meaning, some Limeys of many ethnic backgrounds and faith tend to affect a pomposity that is driven by the desire to appear more middle class than they actually are. An entire sitcom (Keeping Up Appearances) rang so true, that it is being shown in repeats in the U.S.

1 Reply

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

When Obama first took office,the country had LOST 6 Million Full Time jobs the previous year under Bush. In the last year, the country has GAINED over 2.5 Million Full Time jobs and 5 Million Full Time jobs in the past 24 months.

This "economy is in the dumps" business is a lot of baloney.

Not baloney to all the people who voted for Trump because they can no longer get a good job.

0 Replies

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

This "economy is in the dumps" business is a lot of baloney.

Obama increased the job market for the part-time workers, the uneducated and the unskilled. It was and still is a sorry time for many very well educated individuals...Why else would there be so many PhDs driving cabs in major urban areas?

Why should a PhD in Chemistry have to, drive a cab, mop bank floors, flip burgers at MacDonalds ,etc. to earn a living, or as Obama would put it...BE EMPLOYED?

The economy today , based on the present joy in the Stock Market, has been caused by President Trump....When will the Democrats wake up?

Trump is good for business!

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

... Limeys of many ethnic backgrounds and faith tend to affect a pomposity that is driven by the desire to appear more middle class than they actually are.

Why not?

1 Reply

@Miller,

Miller wrote:

Foofie wrote:

... Limeys of many ethnic backgrounds and faith tend to affect a pomposity that is driven by the desire to appear more middle class than they actually are.

Why not?

Because the pomposity might be a western movie front, with nothing holding it up, like education, or a love of reading, or God forbid me for saying this, but actual social class, based on the British model. (One is born into a social class, based on one's parents, and then through one's own efforts, can be upwardly mobile, downwardly mobile, or maintain one's status quo. This might be better understood by mainstream WASPs?)

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