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Life In Iraq.

 
 
Reply Thu 23 Jan, 2003 08:02 pm
Open forum for first person articles or interviews with Iraqi citizens, and comments, opinions, discussion. Hoping to limit American political discussion, as there are lots of threads for that.

An excerpt from MSNBC. Link at end of excerpt.

Jan. 17 ?- I don't think a day went by during my recent assignment in Baghdad when I wasn't asked by the news anchor back in the United States, "Jim, tell me, what's the buzz in the street over there?" And I would think, "God, here we go again. How much can I really say?"


FOR THREE WEEKS I fielded these questions as best I could, touching on Iraqis' apparent defiance ?- and growing worry ?- over a war with America.
But I never once spoke without the sense that Iraqi authorities ?- in this case the Ministry of Information officials who essentially managed our lives ?- were hanging on every word, ready to pounce and revoke my visa ?- or worse ?- if I stepped out of line.
In reality, these men were probably too busy, or disorganized, to really pay so much attention to these live reports ?- among hundreds from dozens of foreign journalists broadcasting from our "fly-aways" on the ministry building rooftop.
But fear of the consequences was real ?- and it did lead to plenty of caution and careful calculation. In the end, I opted to be candid, which could account for Iraq's refusal to renew my visa.
When you multiply that fear by a thousand, you begin to get a sense of why Iraqis say the things they say, and why for them, the truth is often better left unsaid.

FEAR FACTOR
The ongoing dispute over interviewing Iraqi scientists is case in point.
It's a significant issue. The Bush administration firmly believes that the best intelligence on Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction ultimately will come from defecting Iraqi experts who speak outside of the country.
The unprecedented inspection of the homes of two Iraqi scientists on Thursday suggested the experts are becoming more aggressive, and could produce a breakthrough.
But so far, U.N. inspectors have interviewed just a few scientists, and none has accepted the invitation to leave the country ?- effectively, to defect ?- at least not publicly. Indeed, no Iraqi scientist has even agreed to be interviewed in Iraq without the presence of an Iraqi official.
Two scientists who have been questioned in the presence of Iraqi functionaries later told the international press that they didn't want to run the risk of their answers' being "misinterpreted" by forces (read: America) that might skew the truth.
But sources say these Iraqis are motivated by fear ?- for their lives and the lives of their families, to even be seen to be engaging, privately, with the enemy.
The suspicion of treason runs so deep, it would appear, that the token Iraqi official present at any interview with U.N. inspectors may be, in effect, the interviewee's lifeline.

When pressed on why he didn't want to be interviewed abroad, Iraq's chief liaison with U.N. inspectors, Gen. Hussam Mohammed Amin, replied at a recent press conference: "I don't see any reason for it. I'd rather speak here in my own country. But each individual should decide for himself."
Knowing what has happened, in the past, to other Iraqi scientists-cum-defectors who have dared to speak the truth, it's a small wonder that none has come forward and that the so-called "modalities" of these critical interviews remain in limbo.


The MSNBC article.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 11:29 am
Lash, This is what happens when those same scientists remember what happened to the Kurds. Can you blame them? c.i.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 11:47 am
I certainly don't blame them.
Even someone, who was willing to sacrifice their life to reveal what Saddam is up to dares not to speak, because of what will be done to their wives and children.

It is amazing to me that one solitary man can engender so much widespread fear.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 03:49 pm
What is more freightening is the fact that he has so many that supports his form of tyrany. Just goes to show that intelligence is no indicator of humanism nor sympathy. c.i.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 06:23 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
What is more freightening is the fact that he has so many that supports his form of tyrany. Just goes to show that intelligence is no indicator of humanism nor sympathy. c.i.

I think there are very few in the world who support his form of tyranny. I would be very surprised if you could find many.

That there are many who either, for any of a myriad of different reasons, do not favour a war against his country, period, or who do not favour one under the command of the US or under the modalities they suggest, is really a wholly different issue. Is an old thing - just like how the many in the West who in the eighties opposed the nuclear arms race (whether or not in retrospect they look naive) overwhelmingly did not support the Soviet form of tyranny.

I also think that, like c.i., I just grossly transgressed the limits Lash set to this discussion. Apologies.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 06:40 pm
I was thinking c.i. was talking about some within Iraq supporting Saddam's regime.

There are a select group that are making out like bandits in Iraq.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 06:58 pm
Exactly! c.i.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 07:02 pm
Excerpt from MSNBC article re: cost and number of Saddam's palaces, and accessiblity of 'havens' to his loyalists. Emphasis are mine.

The total construction cost, as estimated by United States intelligence: $2 billion. "We based it on regional construction costs," said one official, "and that doesn't include the furnishings."
The palaces range in size from villas to one, in Saddam's home town of Tikrit, with an area 50 times that of the White House or Buckingham Palace. In Baghdad, there are five spectacular palaces. In Jabul Makhul, much of the palace built there is underground.
In addition, Saddam has refurbished older palaces, including the 12th century Abbasid Palace in central Baghdad.

January 23 ?- The secret world of Saddam Hussein's lavish palaces. Will they be among the first targets in a war with Iraq? NBC's Lisa Myers has this investigative report.
Between 1991 and 1995, when Iraqis lost two-thirds of their income and the United Nations was searching for weapons of mass destruction, the pace of construction accelerated.
"You have to remember this was at a time when Iraqi officials were complaining to the United Nations about a housing shortage" said one U.S. official.
The U.S. State Department says in a report out this week on Iraqi disinformation that the cost of Saddam's palaces was more than the $1.74 billion the World Food Program spent in 2001 to deliver 660,000 metric tons of food to 77 million people worldwide.
Entifadh Qanbar, an Iraqi construction engineer who worked on three palaces during the Iran-Iraq War in the late 1980s and now lives in suburban Washington, says the palaces symbolize ego and power.

"People are under the impression here in the United States and the West that the palaces are residences for the president," said Qunbar. "This is not the case for Saddam. For the bigger part, the palaces are a show of business for Saddam, a show of his existence and power. And the second part, palaces for Saddam. Each palace will occupy huge land of area and it will contain barracks for his bodyguards, training camps within the palace, depots for weapons, depots for weapons of mass destruction, prisons, torture chambers."
Qunbar says the buildings are double-walled to withstand explosive charges, and underslung with warrens of tunnels.
But there are also parks for the children of loyalists. At the Republican Palace, a water park features small man-made lakes connected by a network of canals. There are restaurants and boat docks.
At Lake TharThar, north of Baghdad, there is a giant Ferris wheel and a pendulum along with a merry-go-round and a resort village of more than 100 condominiums, all near Saddam's Green Palace.


"Diplomatic officials who have visited the palaces tell of a world of splendors not seen even in European palaces that have long since become museums," said one U.S. official.
"One described the grounds of the palace at Basra as ?'more extensive and sophisticated than Versailles, filled with exotic flowers and shrubs.' "
Each palace features multiple big-screen televisions and elaborate digital sound systems that fill each room with the "ubiquitous sound of Iraqi Muzak."
All of the palaces are appointed with gold faucets, silk rugs and marble. A palace in Mosul has 50-foot waterfalls inside.

"Furniture has to be made of the best woods in the world, linens has to be gold weaved, all doors has to be super solid teakwood, expensive wood," said Qunbar. "Accessories for bathrooms has to be gold plated, yes. I mean ... money is of no concern. Me, as an engineer, we learned in school we have to balance between quality and budget. That was not the case here."

If Saddam didn't like the choice of materials, "things could be trashed away and replaced with something else and it's not a big problem. So it was something that [was] a very unique experience for an engineer," said Qunbar.
Butler, who visited several of the palaces during his early days as an inspector, said: "What they all have in common is size and bombastic character ?- you know grand ?- the sorts of things that you would expect a dictator to build. Monumental would be a nice way of putting it."

Just another view. At the end of the article, it was stated one of Saddam's architects was murdered shortly after detailing some specifications to a French publication.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 07:25 pm
The proper title of this forum should be "Death in Iraq." c.i.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 07:29 pm
'Pears so.

Not a good time in the ole town tonight.

For my next trick, I will find a good report from Iraq.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2003 09:31 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Exactly! c.i.

ok!
sorry.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2003 09:09 am
Lash

Great contribution----his palaces have long been a point of contention with me but the world seems to want to ignore the implications-----these to me would be worth at least two cruise missiles per palace.

Thanks again for presenting this information
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