Seems that England is looking at splitting away from the EU

When I'd been in England for the first time 50 ago, and wanted to read some other papers than the Daily Echo, my guest parents 'heavily' advised me not to get the Mail and/or Express ...

Let travellers embark on their journey to use a German saying. 'Don't let the door hit you on the way out' ...

But some times, doors are spring-loaded.

Since only the British Prime Minister David Cameron and his Hungarian counterpart Viktor Orban (a nationalist right-winger) voted against Juncker today, since Cameron threatened, this would lead to the UK leaving the EU ...

Personally, I really don't understand the UK - besides that they want to leave.
Junker and Schulz were the candidates for this post at the election: the first, voters really had a democratic chance to elect the next EU-leader.
But none of the numerous tv-discussions war aired in the UK, nor did the English Conservatives choose an own candidate (they are no member of the European conservatives) nor did Labour support the Social-Democrat candidate Schulz. (I had preferred the latter - but Junker got more votes.)

So, I really think that the UK will leave the EU ... and they should.

If I'm not mistaken the key issue in the UK is whether the EU is a union of sovereign governments or an interim stage of continuing movement to an "ever closer union" that will eventually displace many of the prerogatives of national governments, increasingly subordinating them to bureaucratic rule from Brussels. These issues also appear to have some political traction in France and other countries as well. Similar issues attended earlier efforts to amend the EU treaties and national referenda attendant to them.

In short, while I don't have a voice (or opinion) as to whether the UK should leave the EU, I don't believe the underlying issues regarding EU governance will be resolved if it leaves.

That is the interpretation in the UK. Correct.

What I really find disturbing is that they (all British parties) were talking about the the EU-commission being not democratically elected - but then just want to do it as was done before: trying to nominate and disregarding the election.

I don't think that the blackmailing Cameron did, is doing him and the UK a favour.
He behaved like a defiant child. And thus lost his last allies.

I'm not as familiar with the details ae are you. However, this sounds like normal stuff in politics (and life). Politicians (and people) often say what is convenient at the moment in rationalizing their actions, as opposed to the whole truth. It does appear that Cameron has lost some of his political support in the UK, as you suggest. At the same time it also appears the there are underlying issues in the UK towards EU governance, and that similar issues lurk perhaps beneath the surface in other EU countries as well.

I think the basic dilemma attendant to the historically remarkable success of the EU over the past generation, a success that was often facilitated by bypassing some key underlying political issues, remains the ultimate resolutions of those very issues regarding sovereignty. A few decades ago the external political and economic threats tended to make delaying the final resolution of those matters look very justifiable. Now, in the absence of such immediate threats, it appears that resolving them will be very difficult indeed.

Please don't generalise - I am a UK citizen and am passionately in favour of the UK's membership of the EU, and of the European project. I am definitely not alone. I was disappointed when Britain's 1963 entry attempt failed, and pleased when we succeeded in 1973. I do not want my country (with or without Scotland) to leave the EU.

According to a very recent poll, while 48% would definitely leave and 36% definitely stay, if membership terms could be renegotiated this changes to 42% would definitely stay and 36% definitely leave. Either way it's quite close, and there is not the gigantic majority in favour of leaving that some people seem to think.

Besides you, contrex, I know a few more with similar views.
And I've seen those data ... and read that Cameron now is a martyr

Cameron is a dickhead, he made a big song and dance about stopping Juncker two weeks ago and now it's come back and bit him on the arse. All on the same week his former press advisor was found guilty of phone hacking charges, and former aide charged with downloading child pornography.

Says a lot about his judgement, and the company he keeps.

Well, at least he still has some friends, and can count on them, from Eton and Oxford ...

Split views on today's papers:

Bloomberg and (nearly) all British


versus

Spiegel and (most) continental European

(Europe wins, Cameron loses)

Also sprach Zarathustra!

At least Britain and Europe agree that Cameron's a loser.