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Thu 19 Apr, 2012 01:57 pm
On this day in Waco Texas, 1993...
QUOTE:At Mount Carmel in Waco, Texas, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) launches a tear-gas assault on the Branch Davidian compound, ending a tense 51-day standoff between the federal government and an armed religious cult. By the end of the day, the compound was burned to the ground, and some 80 Branch Davidians, including 22 children, had perished in the inferno.
The government argued that the Davidians were either killing each other as part of a suicide pact or were killing dissenters who attempted to escape Most of the survivors contested this, as did the press. Charges against the ATF and FBI's handling of the Waco standoff ranged from incompetence to premeditated murder.
In 1999, the FBI admitted they used tear-gas grenades in the assault, which have been known to cause fires because of their incendiary properties.
Coincidentally, or on purpose that same day in 1995...
QUOTE:A massive truck bomb explodes outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. The blast collapsed the north face of the nine-story building, instantly killing more than 100 people and trapping dozens more in the rubble.
@Rickoshay75,
'95 was on purpose because McVeigh was obsessed with what had happened in Waco - no other reason for the "commemoration" of the "anniversary".
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
'95 was on purpose because McVeigh was obsessed with what had happened in Waco - no other reason for the "commemoration" of the "anniversary".
You may be right, but I don't see the connection between a religious cult and a commercial building...
Personal note: on this date in 1993 I was in Irving, TX, not all that far from Waco. I had just arrived there, having spent the previous four weeks in Oklahome City, some of that time at the Murrah Building, working as a consultant for the US State Dept.
Phew.
@Rickoshay75,
it wasn't a commercial building, it was a federal building (aka a government building)
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Personal note: on this date in 1993 I was in Irving, TX, not all that far from Waco. I had just arrived there, having spent the previous four weeks in Oklahome City, some of that time at the Murrah Building, working as a consultant for the US State Dept.
Phew.
We will never know how many times we've all been close to death, or even killed, had we taken different paths when we had a choice.
@Rickoshay75,
These nuts had kill a large number of federal agents and refused to surrender for a month or more so tear gas was the least response the government was entitle to used.
Given how dangerous they had proven to be leveling the compound using field artillery even if they was using their own children as a shield would not had been an over reaction.
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:
it wasn't a commercial building, it was a federal building (aka a government building)
I sit corrected. Next time I'll read my own posts.
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:Charges against the ATF and FBI's handling of the Waco standoff ranged from incompetence to premeditated murder.
Meanwhile back in reality, the investigations into the actual facts of the standoff showed that it was the Davidians that were to blame for the fires.
@parados,
Yeah, that's true, but if I remember correctly, some heads rolled at ATF for the way they handled that whole thing. In Irving I was with a group of Federal Air Marshalls, none of them involved in the ongoing Waco fracas. Without exception, they were all shaking their heads, saying that the whole standoff with Koresh and the Branch Davidians had been a textbook example of gross incompetence.
@Lustig Andrei,
The ATF botched the initial raid.
The FBI was in charge of the siege.
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Personal note: on this date in 1993 I was in Irving, TX, not all that far from Waco. I had just arrived there, having spent the previous four weeks in Oklahome City, some of that time at the Murrah Building, working as a consultant for the US State Dept.
Phew.
Oh man!!! Are you a spy???Are you snooping around here looking for subversives...I ain't one of those... I am reversive... That means: If I find I am wrong I have the power to change my own mind...
@parados,
I hear that the FBI agents flatten a few cars on the parking lot when leaning to drive the tanks.
Cannot have train military personals running the tanks as that would break the post civil war law against the military acting in a law enforcement role.
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:We will never know how many times we've all been close to death, or even killed, had we taken different paths when we had a choice.
Oh puh-leeze . . . there's so much melodrama, i may need dramamine . . .
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
I hear that the FBI agents flatten a few cars on the parking lot when leaning to drive the tanks.
Cannot have train military personals running the tanks as that would break the post civil war law against the military acting in a law enforcement role.
They showed it on TV several times and my impression was it wasn't a conventional tank. It was an armored vehicle with an extended arm that broke through the door so they could toss in tear gas containers.
@Rickoshay75,
Don't, for pete's sakes, argue with anything BillRM says. It just eggs him on.
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Don't, for pete's sakes, argue with anything BillRM says. It just eggs him on.
He sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but I'm not interested enough to investigate it.
@Rickoshay75,
If BillRM actually knows what he's talking about, that's a first. In addition to which you have to read his posts three and four times to even begin to understand what the hell he
is talking about.
@Rickoshay75,
I dont' think it was murder, they killed large ammounts of Federal agents, and even resisted the military. Infact, I think in the raid that some of the Federal agents were hurt, possibly killed. Also, this was the time when the military was actually called in, and the cops said "Cover me" so they just started laying out suppressing fire...yeah, sad times. (Sorry if you knew all this, I'm just posting what I know, and what I think)
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
If BillRM actually knows what he's talking about, that's a first. In addition to which you have to read his posts three and four times to even begin to understand what the hell he is talking about.
Using the right words is to convey what I want to say is my problem too
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