11
   

ear marks, I approve of them

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 10:59 am
@Fido,
I think it would be impossible for people to vote on every Bill. We can barely conduct accurate voting with our current method. I question if the people voting on every bill would comply with the Constitution.

Americans demonstrate a great lack of information about their government, certainly about Bills. It is apparent that a vast majority get their news from ultra-conservative FOX news and radio. Some get their news from the Daily Show and The Colbert Report. I would say about 50% don't have a clue about the issues and have no interest in what is going on beyond their own neighborhood, even beyond their home or workplace, if they are lucky enough to have a job.

Given how ignorant the majority of Americans are, how do you expect to conduct voting on Bills? Roger made a good point about voting for Bills that are applied to states and their cities in which you do not live.

In California, the people can vote on individual Bills proposed by "the people" at election time. It was a good idea but it has created serious problems in the state.

If you want to really screw up American governance, consider the power of the corporate criminal classes in convincing ignorant voters to support their agenda. We've been unable to prevent it with our present system, much less people voting on each Bill.

BBB



BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 11:01 am
@Fido,
You may not know my personal activism history. I'm not afraid---except for stupid ignorant people, as demonstrated the last two years.

I think it would be impossible for people to vote on every Bill. We can barely conduct accurate voting with our current method. I question if the people voting on every bill would comply with the Constitution.

Americans demonstrate a great lack of information about their government, certainly about Bills. It is apparent that a vast majority get their news from ultra-conservative FOX news and radio. Some get their news from the Daily Show and The Colbert Report. I would say about 50% don't have a clue about the issues and have no interest in what is going on beyond their own neighborhood, even beyond their home or workplace, if they are lucky enough to have a job.

Given how ignorant the majority of Americans are, how do you expect to conduct voting on Bills? Roger made a good point about voting for Bills that are applied to states and their cities in which you do not live.

In California, the people can vote on individual Bills proposed by "the people" at election time. It was a good idea but it has created serious problems in the state.

If you want to really screw up American governance, consider the power of the corporate criminal classes in convincing ignorant voters to support their agenda. We've been unable to prevent it with our present system, much less people voting on each Bill.

BBB



0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 01:10 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

I think it would be impossible for people to vote on every Bill. We can barely conduct accurate voting with our current method. I question if the people voting on every bill would comply with the Constitution.

Americans demonstrate a great lack of information about their government, certainly about Bills. It is apparent that a vast majority get their news from ultra-conservative FOX news and radio. Some get their news from the Daily Show and The Colbert Report. I would say about 50% don't have a clue about the issues and have no interest in what is going on beyond their own neighborhood, even beyond their home or workplace, if they are lucky enough to have a job.

Given how ignorant the majority of Americans are, how do you expect to conduct voting on Bills? Roger made a good point about voting for Bills that are applied to states and their cities in which you do not live.

In California, the people can vote on individual Bills proposed by "the people" at election time. It was a good idea but it has created serious problems in the state.

If you want to really screw up American governance, consider the power of the corporate criminal classes in convincing ignorant voters to support their agenda. We've been unable to prevent it with our present system, much less people voting on each Bill.

BBB





Impossible is only a degree of difficulty... If people want it to happen, it can happen... The trend in this land has been toward less democracy instead of more... There is a serious change of ratio between one representing 30k, and one representing over 600k... You tell me; why is it, that the founding fathers and our first citizens to live under the constitution, though they have far less of technology were able to afford more representation per person??? And upon whose authority was the increases, meant to assure the growth of the house with the population- stopped??? The parties wanted the house managable... Where is that goal stated in the constitution: To have government managable??? It was never supposed to be managed... It was supposed to be a free for all....Party machines wanted control of their own, and for this they sacrificed absolute power to the people for greater individual power, which could then be turned to cash... It might seem impossible to have 7000 representatives in Washington, but only because it would make the individual corruption of the government nearly impossible... It would be an improvement to standardize all state governments and send those representatives to the federal government part time... There is no part of it that should be a full time job...

If in doubt on the subject of direct democracy, remember: The aim of the writers of the constitution was to deny democracy, and to only allow so much as they could control... The parties have added another level of inertia to government that was never authorized in the constitution... If we cannot have what we need, and exercise due control over our own affairs but must suffer changes that are not constitutional, that were made without the consent of the people, then a new constitution is required... Ask those people to justify the fixed number of representatives??? Ask them to make the parties constitutional, and give them constitutional protection.. WHO would vote for either party if given a choice??? We vote for a party for lack of a choice...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 01:14 pm
@Fido,
It is impossible to break the power of parties enough to fix the constitution which is mishandled and used by its loopholes and omissions... Yet; we will be forced to do just that, to fix the old with a new form, and I would urge you to start writing a new constitution for this country...
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 05:47 pm
@Fido,
That's easy to start in one sentence: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

BBB

dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 05:52 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Quote:
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
only if you have their permission.
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 06:00 pm
Earmarks are good for the state that gets them. But, hey, aren't we cutting back these days?

Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 11:35 pm
@Pemerson,
Pemerson wrote:

Earmarks are good for the state that gets them. But, hey, aren't we cutting back these days?



Not true... And injustice that seems to benefit us demoralizes us, and makes us weaker before our enemies... What people need is control of their own affairs... To throw them a sop instead of what they need is no kindness, but is an insult... They have instantly divided those who benefit directly, from those who benefit not at all... They have hurt everyone...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 11:43 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
only if you have their permission.
Everyone but a few psycho's and philosophers know how to relate...We just have to build a new social form that can deliver moral goods to people by their own hand... It is just a form, and we have been building forms from the beginning... As hard as it may be, we still need justice to have unity, so let's talk about how to deliver the moral good of justice through a new social form... Then give to it the faith we remove from the old form and let the old form collapse...
Seriously; the only thing keeping the old form of government alive is our unwarranted faith...
0 Replies
 
 

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