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The Gaystapo

 
 
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 12:22 am
This bill written in 2009 is likely to be passed into law in Uganda soon. I can't decide which or more perniciously likely to destabilize the country more, the punishments for being gay or the manipulation of non-gays to turn in their gay acquaintances? Also will countries actually turn gay people over to the Ugandan government if they request extradition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
In April 2009, the Ugandan Parliament passed a resolution allowing Member of Parliament (MP) David Bahati to submit a private member's bill in October to strengthen laws against homosexuality.[12] The bill was proposed on 13 October 2009 by Bahati and is based on the foundations of "strengthening the nation’s capacity to deal with emerging internal and external threats to the traditional heterosexual family", that "same sex attraction is not an innate and immutable characteristic", and "protect[ing] the cherished culture of the people of Uganda, legal, religious, and traditional family values of the people of Uganda against the attempts of sexual rights activists seeking to impose their values of sexual promiscuity on the people of Uganda".[13]
The legislation strengthens the criminalisation of homosexuality in Uganda by introducing the death penalty for people who are considered serial offenders, are suspected of "aggravated homosexuality" and are HIV-positive, or who engage in sexual acts with those under 18 years of age.[13] People who are caught or suspected of homosexual activity will be forced to undergo HIV tests; Ugandans who engage in same-sex sexual relations outside Uganda will likewise fall under the jurisdiction of this law, and may be extradited and charged with a felony. Furthermore, if passed, the bill will require anyone who is aware of an offense or an offender, including individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations who support LGBT rights, to report the offender within 24 hours. If an individual does not do so he or she is also considered an offender and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding 250 "currency points" or imprisonment up to three years.[13]
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,488 • Replies: 19
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 12:34 am
@GoshisDead,
Whatthehell?

Do you have a cite for how close the numbers are seen to be?




GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 12:40 am
@dlowan,
No, I was listening to it on NPR this afternoon and they didn't report actual numbers. Although I do have a link to the spearhead of the movement, a fundamental preacher and his congregation,. However I was hoping that this might be a conversation on the Bill's possible influence on the stability of govt.

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:03 am
@GoshisDead,
Well, I guess a strating point is to establish how stable it is NOW.

Which, offhand, I thought was relatively stable:

This quote seems to be fairly typical of what the net says:

Quote:
POLITICAL CONDITIONS
Since assuming power, Museveni and his government have largely put an end to the human rights abuses of earlier governments, initiated substantial economic liberalization and general press freedom, and instituted economic reforms in accord with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, and donor governments.

The vicious and cult-like Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), which seeks to overthrow the Ugandan Government, had murdered and kidnapped civilians in the north and east since 1986. Although the LRA does not threaten the stability of the government, LRA violence at one time displaced up to 1.8 million people, creating a humanitarian catastrophe, particularly when they were forced into internally displaced persons (IDP) camps for their own protection. The Uganda Peoples Defense Force (UPDF) launched "Operation Iron Fist" against LRA rebels in northern Uganda in 2002 and conducted operations against LRA sanctuaries in southern Sudan with the permission of the Sudanese Government. The Sudanese Government had previously supported the LRA.

In 2005, the Ugandan military pushed the LRA out of northern Uganda. The LRA escaped to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (D.R.C.) and continued to operate there, southern Sudan, and occasionally in Central African Republic. Under military pressure, the LRA requested peace talks. Government of Southern Sudan Vice President Riek Machar mediated a 2-1/2 year peace process which resulted in a Final Peace Agreement (FPA) in April 2008. LRA leader Joseph Kony refused to sign the FPA and continued to commit atrocities against local populations in D.R.C., southern Sudan, and C.A.R. In December 2008 the Governments of Uganda, D.R.C., and southern Sudan launched a joint military operation against the LRA in northeastern D.R.C. A follow-on operation is ongoing.

There have been no LRA attacks in northern Uganda since August 2006. As a result, the majority of the 1.8 million IDPs have returned to or near their homes.



http://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/government.asp?countryID=148&regionID=5

Also looks as though homosexuaity has always been illegal in Uganda.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:22 am
@dlowan,
How do you see this as de-stabilizing the country? Except, perhaps, over the very long term?

Seems like this is a highly homophobic society, with gays already pretty savagely persecuted.

Certainly killing gay people and trying to turn the citizenry into anti-gay Stazi is disgusting....but I am not sure how it is de-stabilizing.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:29 am
@dlowan,
Do you see it stopping at gay? I'm not so sure I do. Maybe I'm paranoid.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:29 am
@dlowan,
Stazi sounds like about the right word, and the DDR was pretty stable, though that was about all you could say for it. Well, Zeiss produced some very good optics. Still, I'm not at all sure the same tactics are going to work in tribal areas of Africa.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:31 am
@GoshisDead,
Now that you mention it, I can be fairly paranoid, too. I can't forget about Rwanda from only a few years ago.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:39 am
Since last December MSNBC's Rachel Maddow has been reporting on this and the support of it by several conservative religious organizations and members of Congress who have made trips there to aid in the effort to get it passed.

Here are three of the segments from her shows last December:






dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 03:41 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

Do you see it stopping at gay? I'm not so sure I do. Maybe I'm paranoid.


I don't know...to whom do you see it extending in particular?

I mean, that sort of world view is so awful th at I can see it expanding easily...but I am not sure who would be targets?

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 03:43 am
@Butrflynet,
Part of the quick and dirty googling I did earlier noted the support of this horror by American "christian" fundamentalist nuts (and I wouldn't mind betting I could find some Australians too.)

This is likely off topic I guess, though...unless it helps point out whom Uganda's nuts might soon be gunning for if Gosh is correct.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 10:37 am
@dlowan,
That implies that religion points to targets. I'm inclined to think it justifies them.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 11:09 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

That implies that religion points to targets. I'm inclined to think it justifies them.


So...which targets is it going to justify?
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 11:25 am
@dlowan,
I was thinking along tribal lines. Its a short hop from saying, "this dude is gay get him" to saying "this dude is gay and from X tribal background even though he's not really gay, but you know..."
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:04 pm
@GoshisDead,
That could kind of fill in as my answer to her later question to me.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 01:23 pm
@roger,
It's kind of hard to refute being gay. Its not like all gay people wear rainbow flags or something. Being raised in a tribal culture is quite a stong thing, even residually. People, as a mass, tend to structure ethics on the law more than the law was ever structured by people's ethics. A law in place for a generation will normalize the behavior. Couple this and the already permeated tribal strife with another reason to dehumanize a neighbor and mass Salem style witch/gayhunts may take place.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 04:56 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

I was thinking along tribal lines. Its a short hop from saying, "this dude is gay get him" to saying "this dude is gay and from X tribal background even though he's not really gay, but you know..."


Aha...tribalism.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 05:23 pm
@GoshisDead,
The BBC had an article about this a couple of months ago -- it's not just Uganda, but many African countries that have similar laws. I think they mentioned only 2 that don't (South Africa was one, can't remember the other). They attributed it partly to colonialization which was then adopted into African culture.

I'll see if I can find it, if you'd be interested in reading.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 05:30 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

The BBC had an article about this a couple of months ago -- it's not just Uganda, but many African countries that have similar laws. I think they mentioned only 2 that don't (South Africa was one, can't remember the other). They attributed it partly to colonialization which was then adopted into African culture.

I'll see if I can find it, if you'd be interested in reading.


Interesting...because they like to blame the decadent countries of the west FOR the homosexuality.
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 05:39 pm
@Irishk,
that would be an interesting read
0 Replies
 
 

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