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@salima,

Get a lap top, they're bang off.

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@step314 phil,

step314;98034 wrote:

Do you have problems entering bios? Try pressing F2 or some similar key on bootup to get there and see if settings are too fast. My guess is that the memory system is having problems. One possibility is that the memory isn't seated well in its socket. Another is that in BIOS the memory latencies are set too low or that the memory is running at too high a speed or that the memory voltages are too low (but be careful about increasing the memory (DRAM) voltages too much, since this can damage the cpu). If your bios (i.e., the bios program itself and not its settings) is not right and if you are able, you could try to update the bios by downloading the latest bios for your motherboard from your motherboard's website (or from the website of your computer manufacturer). Be careful doing this, though, since a bad install of bios or an install of a bios incompatible with your motherboard can lead to a bios so corrupt the computer is unusable, in which case a new bios chip has to be installed. If you can get into bios and it's corrupted settings themselves (stored in CMOS) that are causing the problem, you might try setting everything to default or initial values. There may actually be an option in the BIOS ennabling you to do this all at once. Alternatively, as a last resort, on the motherboard there might be a button or jumper that you can use to clear the CMOS chip, which essentially sets things to motherboard default and in particular would probably enable the bios to be accessible if it's not. Of course, changing BIOS settings might cause minor problems if hardware has been installed that required special settings. It might be the power supply unit is part of the problem; i've read that with age (and I'm guessing heat as well) the capacitors can wear out somewhat making the power supply less capable of producing the required voltages; still, by tweaking down performance slightly maybe you could make do.

I'm not a computer expert, but I built my last computer, and because I had bought cheapo memory that was either defective or incompatible that took a good deal of study to diagnose and replace, I am familiar with memory problems.

Another thought that comes to mind is that maybe your CMOS battery is failing or dead. Perhaps as a result the CMOS keeps getting gibberish in it, which causes the BIOS (and booting) to fail a few times until it decides it needs to reset the CMOS values to what the bios considers a default or prior good state, whereupon the computer can boot. A symptom of this would be if the system time is unusually erroneous.

Did you get the error message exactly right? I don't know what devoltage means, and googling the expression yields nothing basically. The easiest way to repair something is often just to google the exact error message.

actually the message has now changed-it says overclocking or overvoltage has failed. so the fellow who looked at the thing for me fixed it so that when it happens, the factory default settings are automatically restored. it still doesnt do it every time i start up, only most of the time. but his thought was that it was the power supply thing inside the case.

my thought was, would the power supply have become defective from the electrical wires to the house not being grounded? i highly doubt if anything here is grounded. and the fact that we have power cuts, sometimes very low voltage, and maybe a time or two of spikes.

and there was a time period of about two weeks when i shut off the ups. but still they told me the computer itself has a surge protector inbuilt. so i had a lot of those horrible 'improper shutdowns' without my battery backup-does that cause any damage to the power supply? i mean i know it isnt good, but what exactly does it do to a pc?

so if they just give me a new power supply, that would be great-they said they would fix it for about two dollars, but i dont like that idea very much. i do believe my first priority is to find a competent electrician before either it or me gets fried.

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@salima,

I think grounding is more of a safety issue. If the power supply unit in the case is not grounded, then if a loose wire, etc., causes the psu case to become electrified, then the electricity will go to ground (tripping a breaker or fuse) rather than to you if you touch the computer case. Second-rate grounding, e.g., with a neutral wire or a ground that is quite distant (e.g., not at your service entrance) might cause voltages in the computer case even when there are no shorts to the case--occasionally they might shock you somewhat, especially when there is high current in the return line. But it is not more likely to happen with a computer than with anything else. Something like a stove or indeed anything in a bathroom or kitchen (where at times you are likely to be very well grounded, e.g., when touching a sink) would pose a much greater risk, probably.

Some power supplies are actually very tolerant of voltage differences. That way, they can work in many different countries. The one I got (a Seasonic--I didn't skimp on that) works on anything from 100V to 240V, 50hz-60Hz, no manual switching even necessary.

Surges from lightning for example can damage computers regardless, and I am thinking the damage probably depends on how good the power supply is (and what kind of surge protector or UPS you've got) and guessing that these surges probably would damage the more sensitive electronics of your computer more than they'd damage the power supply itself (though the latter's ability to protect from such surges might decrease with experience). All this said, if the electrical grid and its supporting structures isn't grounded prudently and reasonably, it makes sense to me you'd be more likely to get surges from lightning. But it might not be a power supply problem. Does the rated wattage of your psu give you anything to spare given what is in your computer? There are easily googable "power supply calculator" sites on web where you can check.

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@salima,

One area where large computer manufacturers really skimp on installing a quality component is the power supply. This alone is one of the best reasons to build your own system, as the terrible PSUs that come in proprietary systems frequently die, and then you must buy their replacement proprietary part (which is also prone to failure) at a ridiculous price.

Anyway, Salima, I'd ask a friend who knows something about computers to try resetting your CMOS and replacing the CMOS battery, like step suggested. Also, try a better power supply and see if that helps. If you have a proprietary system, an ATX type PSU might not fit in the case, but you can have someone hook one up to see if that solves the problem and then go from there.

1 Reply

@Pangloss,

Salima:
You must ground the electricity in your house.. or it may be just that one outlet. The fact that you were shocked indicates that the housing of the computer isn't grounded. That will make the power supply complain, and may damage it, but not necessarily.

If you can use your computer at all, the motherboard is probably fine.

I'd get the electrician to check the grounding before you proceed.

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@salima,

thanks everyone-
if my landlord doesnt do something, starting tuesday (monday is new year) i go searching for an electrician. there are no laws here on safety and codes for electricity-or if there are, they are only mentioned when someone wants a bribe.

i dont mind getting shocked, if the issue is separate from the power supply. the pc i bought is an hcl which i chose because i thought at least being made in india they would be prepared for the conditions here-like the extreme heat, dust and power freakouts. but if necessary i will find out what kind of power supply can be used in it that is best quality and then ask someone if it will work and see if they have any idea what i am talking about. if they seem to know something, i will have them replace it.

---------- Post added 10-18-2009 at 07:34 AM ----------

i dont want to open the case and look inside, especially with the current now...if i go to the hcl website maybe i can find out something about what power supply is in the pc. they dont give any manuals here and i dont know how to find out what i have. the UPS is APC ES-500 and nobody in a home uses things like this, only professionals, so i assume it is a case of over-engineering my needs, which is fine by me. rather err on the side of safety.

we dont get lightning hardly ever. the short or lack of grounding is coming to the house-here they addon wires and steal power and there are absolutely no standards followed. live wires dangle on the ground, three elephants were electrocuted here in town not long ago. it is unbelievable. i dont understand what i am talking about, but when you say 'ground wire at your service entrance' i am thinking there isnt any and i am not sure there is anyone who knows how to add one. you see the connections are all rube goldberg...shoemaker contraptions. the fuseboxes are like a scene from a nightmare. but people use computers here...so maybe all that is unrelated to my problem, only an annoyance.

step314;98177 wrote:

I think grounding is more of a safety issue. If the power supply unit in the case is not grounded, then if a loose wire, etc., causes the psu case to become electrified, then the electricity will go to ground (tripping a breaker or fuse) rather than to you if you touch the computer case. Second-rate grounding, e.g., with a neutral wire or a ground that is quite distant (e.g., not at your service entrance) might cause voltages in the computer case even when there are no shorts to the case--occasionally they might shock you somewhat, especially when there is high current in the return line. But it is not more likely to happen with a computer than with anything else. Something like a stove or indeed anything in a bathroom or kitchen (where at times you are likely to be very well grounded, e.g., when touching a sink) would pose a much greater risk, probably.

Some power supplies are actually very tolerant of voltage differences. That way, they can work in many different countries. The one I got (a Seasonic--I didn't skimp on that) works on anything from 100V to 240V, 50hz-60Hz, no manual switching even necessary.

Surges from lightning for example can damage computers regardless, and I am thinking the damage probably depends on how good the power supply is (and what kind of surge protector or UPS you've got) and guessing that these surges probably would damage the more sensitive electronics of your computer more than they'd damage the power supply itself (though the latter's ability to protect from such surges might decrease with experience). All this said, if the electrical grid and its supporting structures isn't grounded prudently and reasonably, it makes sense to me you'd be more likely to get surges from lightning. But it might not be a power supply problem. Does the rated wattage of your psu give you anything to spare given what is in your computer? There are easily googable "power supply calculator" sites on web where you can check.

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@salima,

It sounds like Arjuna is right and you need, Salima, to improve your grounding situation. In the mean time, try to avoid touching appliances and pipes at same time. I should read more carefully, I didn't notice that you had mentioned getting shocked or that Pangloss had already mentioned the possible CMOS problem.

As I understand it, in the U.S. there are typically three wires going to an outlet: a green ground wire, a black or red live wire, and a white neutral (return) wire. Where the electricity comes into the house (the service entrance) the ground wires and the neutral return wires are effectively grounded to metal pipe, copper wire in the ground, etc., right there. It can be dangerous for an outlet to have the grounding contact attached to a neutral wire, because voltages can develop between the ground and the outlet when the neutral wire carries current. Even more dangerous apparently (I should have mentioned this earlier) would be if the neutral wire gets cut or disconnected when the appliance is on. Then if you are touching the housing "grounded" by the neutral wire, that's no ground at all and even without a short or any defect in the appliance, it will be full voltage and so the electricity will return to ground through you if you are at all grounded. I could very well imagine this sort of thing could happen all the time if wires are lying all over the place in such a way as to be easily cut or disconnected. Safety-wise, you'd probably be better off in this case if the grounding prong weren't attached to anything than to have it be attached to neutral, and you might make sure any electrician you hire doesn't take the short cut of attaching a grounding contact in an outlet to a neutral wire. Sometimes it is desirable for housings not to be grounded, e.g., with toasters where there is a good chance you might touch a live wire directly with one hand and the case with the other at the same time. But I read on internet that having no ground actually can be unusually dangerous for a computer; the best I understand it there can be capacitors connecting the case via the power supply to the wires coming in, which if they short out can cause the case to become dangerous. And I'll believe Arjuna that the power supply unit and case not getting ground can cause it or the computer to malfunction (static, radio interference, complicated phenomena I don't understand--see Dangers and Problems of Ungrounded PC). As a last resort, you could try connecting the case via wire to a water pipe (if the pipes are all metal).

Apparently, there are many variations in how things are grounded from country to country. I can imagine the higher voltages in India than here by themselves make electricity more dangerous there. A local electrician with understanding and practical experience might be a good bet indeed.

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@salima,

step314-
actually there are no water pipes...well there is an underground tank and it has a pipe with a faucet but it is outside the house...i honestly dont believe anything in this country is grounded...there are no three prong plugs per se with the little prong on it like in the states. well some plugs are three pronged and some two but it seems that is related to how much juice the appliance uses.

i can also remember getting a mild shock every time i touched the case of my dvd player to turn it off or on in the other place i was renting. but my pc expert friend (who has since disappeared) seems to be aware of the procedure of grounding, so someone here must know something about it. this is a small town.

thanks-i will see what can be done. no wonder people here are afraid of electricity. i thought i heard more people died of snakebites than electrocution, though...i also use an electric stove, which no one else does, and one fellow told me i should put a wooden board on the floor to stand on when i use it which i thought was very funny,because i had no idea at the time what is going on here.

1 Reply

@salima,

salima;98254 wrote:

step314-
one fellow told me i should put a wooden board on the floor to stand on when i use it which i thought was very funny,because i had no idea at the time what is going on here.

Another option would be to wear rubber-sole sandals or shoes. And don't touch two appliances at once or while touching an appliance touch anything that might conduct to ground (like something that might be connected via water, dampness, or metal to the ground or to something large that can hold much charge); I try to do this myself even here, e.g., I don't like to have a hand on the sink when I am using the other to switch the light or the garbage disposal.

Possibly those currents you felt were just temporary probably not extremely dangerous (< 0.5mA) jolts arising from the charge in the capacitors that are essentially attached to the case (as described in the link I posted in my last post) to prevent radio interference effects, etc. (I don't really understand the theory); if so and the link is right the case would be (before touching it) at about 115V rather than 230V as would be the case with a short to the case (if your electricity is at 230V)--a voltmeter between the case and neutral might tell the difference. Just don't get your computer (and more particularly, its power supply) wet and with luck you won't have a very dangerous short to the case.

I am guessing that something you could do to improve safety (and ground your computer case) would be to attach wires from the cases of your stove and the computer and bind them together at the water tank (if it is metal) or a long metal stake in the ground. (Poor or No Electrical Ground--What to do about it) But I am not an electrician or expert about this, so I am not sure; possibly no grounding would be better. E.g., you wouldn't want a stove problem to electrocute you at your computer as could I guess conceivably happen if the ground turns out to be bad. I guess that would be a point for attaching at the ground stake the grounding wires to neutral; but then your town has neutral wires in the not often grounded grid that can very well be destroyed by roaming elephants or electricity thieves, so with appliances circumcuitously attached to neutral, if the grounding you did turns out to be worthless or poor, well, appliances without any problems would start shocking you on account of what the elephants or electricity thieves did. I'm guessing that just grounding and no bonding ground wires to neutral might be best for you (especially if you ground to a water tap which it wouldn't do to electrify), but if it's not practical, there's not much you can do beyond getting well-made appliances unlikely to short to the case. One can buy Class II "double-insulated" devices especially designed to be unusually safe to use without a grounding wire; maybe there are power supplies and stoves like that.

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