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The Liability of US Citizenship for Expats

 
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:10 pm
More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

Quote:
Anecdotally, frustrations over tax and banking questions, not political considerations, appear to be the main drivers of the surge. Expat advocates say that as it becomes more difficult for Americans to live and work abroad, it will become harder for American companies to compete.

American expats have long complained that the United States is the only industrialized country to tax citizens on income earned abroad, even when they are taxed in their country of residence, though they are allowed to exclude their first $91,400 in foreign-earned income.

One Swiss-based business executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of sensitive family issues, said she weighed the decision for 10 years. She had lived abroad for years but had pleasant memories of service in the U.S. Marine Corps.

Yet the notion of double taxation " and of future tax obligations for her children, who will receive few U.S. services " finally pushed her to renounce, she said.

“I loved my time in the Marines, and the U.S. is still a great country,” she said. “But having lived here 20 years and having to pay and file while seeing other countries’ nationals not having to do that, I just think it’s grossly unfair.”

“It’s taxation without representation,” she added.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 2,714 • Replies: 11
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Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:11 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I've been considering this myself. I just don't derive any benefit from the US taxes I personally pay and if just being a citizen means the US has a right to tax me regardless of where I live and earn money it is a significant financial liability for life outside the United States.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:15 pm
I was reading that article last night. It's a very small percentage, overall, as I recall. Once citizenship is renounced, is it permanent? I don't remember if that was mentioned.

I have a cousin who has been working for his company in Zurich for the past couple of years. They make it worth his while, but I don't see him giving up his citizenship over taxes. Who really knows, though.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:17 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Does the US have a treaty with Costa Rica? It was my understanding a decade ago that foreign taxes worked as either a deduction, or outright credit to the US taxes. I don't recall if it involved tax treaty or most favored nation status.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:31 pm
@roger,
I can deduct something around $90,000 (didn't do my taxes this year, so I don't recall exact amount) but it's a lot more than just taxes. It's a fundamental notion of America believing they have the legal right to control their citizens regardless of where they live and America's penchant for prohibition (e.g. online poker).

Few countries are that authoritarian, and some are very very generous when it comes to taxes. Given that I don't use American infrastructure, American citizenship is both a financial liability and an impediment to freedom to me.

Also, given that many nations have visa restrictions that reciprocate how their citizens are treated it also can make for travel restrictions. For example, American citizens have to apply for a visa in advance to go to Brazil while a Costa Rican could just show up and get one while they are having their passport stamped. This is because that is how Costa Rica treat's Brazilian citizens entering the country but the United States makes it very difficult for Brazilians to enter the country. It doesn't make financial sense, mind you, for Brazil to reciprocate this way (Costa Rica doesn't with the US and Americans can enter without pre-obtaining a visa) but it's another American citizenship tax when operating abroad.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 03:56 pm
@Irishk,
According to US Law...Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20
Renunciation of US citizenship is permanent, with very few exceptions.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

As for the tax part...

Quote:
Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:21 pm
@Robert Gentel,
More of a liability that the possibility of returning to the states one day to live is a possible benefit, (she said slightly nervously)?

You are a person who changes their mind about where you're going to live a lot, or so it beseemeth.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:47 pm
@dlowan,
Right now it's not yet worth the hassle of trying to change citizenship, but it may become so depending on where I go next. Part of changing would have to include citizenship in a country I'd not mind living in.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:49 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
As for the tax part...

Quote:
Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information).


This makes it sound more like an STD than citizenship.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:54 pm
@mysteryman,
Thanks, MM. I think that small percentage of expats that are deciding to renounce are the ones that have been working abroad for decades anyway, or don't see themselves returning here to work anytime soon. I'd hate to pay double taxes (if that's the case), too. In my cousin's case, he's married with a small son, so he has other considerations besides just himself.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 05:02 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

Right now it's not yet worth the hassle of trying to change citizenship, but it may become so depending on where I go next. Part of changing would have to include citizenship in a country I'd not mind living in.



Of course...I was just thinking what an unpredictable world we live in, and all and gibbering slightly.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 05:05 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
This makes it sound more like an STD than citizenship


That's funny. Citizenship, like life, often IS a sexually transmitted condition!

Whether it's a disease or not kind of depends on where the great lottery of life lands one, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
 

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