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Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

 
 
JTT
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:46 pm
Quote:
Edmund Fitzgerald sunk by rogue wave, not crew error: documentary

TORONTO - The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down, but the man who immortalized the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald has been moved to revise his iconic version of the story in light of some findings by a Canadian-produced documentary.

"They might have split up or they might have capsized. They may have broke deep and took water," Gordon Lightfoot speculates in his 1976 hit ballad chronicling the mysterious sinking of the Great Lakes freighter.

But in the first episode of a six-part television series debuting next week, a father-and-son diving team suggests a potential answer to the questions posed in Lightfoot's "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald."

In "Dive Detectives" - produced by Toronto-based Yap Films - Mike and Warren Fletcher try to debunk the long-standing theory that human error brought the ship down and killed all 29 crew members on board.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100325/entertainment/edmund_fitzgerald_mystery

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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 4,390 • Replies: 12
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:55 pm
@JTT,
Still a great song.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 11:00 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Aye, 'tis that, Merry.

Gordon Lighfoot sings,

"They may have broke deep and took water,"

Is that just his choice of words or is that actual sailing/ship jargon? Not being a sailor type, I'd say 'drove deep and took water'.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 07:11 am
@JTT,
Theres lots of errors in the song , like, It was NOT even headed for Cleveland, it was owned by Oglebay Norton which is HQ'd in Cleveland. The Fitzgerald was actually heading for Zug Island on the Detroit R.

The Fitzgerald hadd a history of design problems and continued maintenace issues.
Like, it was too long and was subject to flex and to hogging. Hogging cracks led to at least 2 major refits to put side stiffeners to add strength and to repair cracks in the center superstructure.
The cracks led to several of the center hatchcovers being broken due to flex on the hinges (Apparently these hatch covers dont have much play . So in 1975 (August) A USCGinspection stated that the hatch covers and stiffeners needed major work and after winter layover the Fitzgerald would need these things repaired or it wouldnt be allowed to sil in the spring (BUT THEY LET THE BOAT GO TO FINISH OUT THE 75 SAILING SEASON WHICH ENDED BEFORE THANKSGIVING).

The Fitzgerals had been given 2 approvals by ABS to "LOWER THE FREEBOARD" so the damn thing was allowed to sail (loaded) with a total of over 4 additional feet of freeboard being lowered. It would sail looking like a WWII Japanese Battleship. On several times the lower freeboard had allowed the waves to break over the hatches.

Looking for a rogue wave to sink the boat kinda cops out th responsibility that was on the heads of the designer, Oglebay, the USCG, The ABS and the captain. This was a too long boat, too much flexing, frequent cracking from its design, and it still was allowed to sail with it deck just above water and bad hatches and cracks amidships. It woulda happened anyway.
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 07:49 am
@farmerman,
Lyrics are off in this video, but at least it's really Lightfoot and not a cover:

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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 08:47 am
I always liked that song. I have thought, while listening, that the Fitzgerald was probably too long.

I do like one cover it, by blues grass guitar master Tony Rice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU2Zof3IDjg
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 08:42 am
I never did think it was captain error. I don't think the song refers really to crew/captain error. But it is a damn good song. It would be good to find the wreck and see it broken up. Which undoubtedly it is broken up in two parts.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 09:08 am
@plainoldme,
Yeah, Tony Rice does justice to all his covers of Lightfoot. One of my fave CDs is "Rice Sings Lightfoot"
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 09:21 am
@Philis,
They did find the wreck and it was in rather deep water for the LAke. There was atv show several years ago. They had a burial at sea service and they raised the ships bell and rang it once for each man that was lost. It was a rather respectfully done show for basic cable. (It was done in the day before they realized the market potential of post- adolescent self- mutilation stunts, and the draw power of female body parts)
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 10:02 am
I am pretty sure that "broke deep" refers to riding the wave; they broke the wave too deeply.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 12:25 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Looking for a rogue wave to sink the boat kinda cops out th responsibility that was on the heads of the designer, Oglebay, the USCG, The ABS and the captain.


Looking for what may well have been there is exactly what research is all about, Farmer, is it not?


Quote:

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO THE EDMUND FITZGERALD?

By Margaret Kohut

...

The last communication with the Edmund Fitzgerald came at about 7:10 p.m. whenanother freighter, the Anderson, notified Capt McSorley that she had been hit by three towering waves that were headed in the Fitzgerald's direction. Capt McSorley replied, "We are holdingour own." Only moments later, the Edmund Fitzgerald abruptly and mysteriously sank into the frigid waters of Lake Superior

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:G1MrnQuXw_UJ:www.rockymountainwaywriting.com/PDF/WHAT%2520REALLY%2520HAPPENED%2520TO%2520THE%2520EDMUND%2520FITZGERALD.pdf+what+really+happened+to+the+edmund+fitzgerald%3F&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Philis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 12:57 am
@farmerman,
I remember that show now. Ringing the bell for each sailor. I don't remember the condition of the boat.
Today your icon looks beat up.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 05:01 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Looking for what may well have been there is exactly what research is all about, Farmer, is it not?
Research attempts to be comprehensive in its answers. Do you deny the findings I posted? these are all indesputible facts that were brought out in the inquiries. "Rogue wave" issues wouldnt have been part of the story IF the ship had been taken out of service when the AUgust 75 inspection that noted the sprung hatch covers and cracks in the super'. The worst storms occur in the fall before the lake freezes. This is a known fact, a to keep a severly beaten up boat in service to haul concentrated pellets of iron oxide across a stormy lake from the iron range, is called a major contributing cause.

So, When one does research, one tries to determine as many of the variables as possible, not just one item that will make good copy. I was not denying a "rogue wave", I wanted everyone to know that the ship was a disaster waiting to happen, rogue waves or not.

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