Vacation Bible School has gone off the deep end.

In my experience VBS is mostly for elementary aged kids. They aren't usually given the chance to drop away because they are still under the control of the parents who sent them there in the first place.

I know of a couple renowned biblical scholars who went to seminary intending on becoming priests/ministers and walked away from it after coming to the conclusion that it was a bunch of pap.

What is UCC? United Church of Canada? United Church of Christ? Something else?

Whoever they are, why do you consider them the most liberal of Christian denominations? Are you familiar with all denominations?

Does any organization other the the Christian community offer free vacation bible schools?

Doesn't this seem a bit unlikely just by the nature of the question?

There are Jewish variations on this theme, but in my experience it wasn't called "bible" school.

You are making unwarranted assumptions about my allegiances.

like these guys

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

It ^^^ has been discussed on at least one other thread, but it's worth the reminder of what can happen in the world of religious fundamentalism.

I thought friends were exaggerating when they talked about their experiences in a U.S. bible camp years ago. Then Jesus Camp came out. Made me cry more than once.

UCC is the United Church of Christ and resulted from the merger of the Congregationalists and the Evangelical and Reform Church in 1957. They are very liberal in outlook -- nearly as liberal as the Unitarians, while holding onto a trinitarian construct. As with any merger there were some local churches that kept it's affiliation with it's denomination. There are still Congregational and E/R churches, as well as UCC churches.

I'm not sure what you're asking in your last question.... the bible is a Christian document. Did you mean scripture in general such as Torah schools or did you mean is anyone outside the Christian faith offering bible schools for kids? I imagine other faiths have similar schools in the summer, I don't imagine non-Christian groups are sponsoring free bible schools.

That's a fair point, DrewDad.

What difference does that make to what I said? The problem is the source of the message, not the messenger -- no matter if the messenger is a school or a church.


That's a fair point. I stand exposed as an optimist about Christian indoctrination.


I think that's a bit strong, and it's not specific to parroting Bible stuff. I'm just as uncomfortable with the way regular American schools make children parrot the Pledge of Allegiance, with or without god in it. The problem is in the parroting, not what's being parroted.

Intrepid wrote:

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that they are not schools. They are churches that put on the bible schools.


What difference does that make to what I said? The problem is the source of the message, not the messenger -- whether that be a school or a church.
Thomas is often sily.

Yes, of course, I don't like that parroting either. It remains that I near twirl at the idea of kids parroting stuff, besides, y'know the alphabet and so on.

Inculcation is scary.

Oh, and my comment strong, no.

No wonder. I've learned syilness from the best. On a different note, please let my adoptive American mother know I never liked her.

When i was employed at an environmental center of a midwestern university, one of the summer camps they ran was for the Jewish Federation. I just checked online, and its still in business (the camp is named, but for reasons of my own privacy, i'm not going to repeat the camp's name--but it has been in business for more than 50 years). They say, specifically: "The camp provides nearly 100 Jewish youth from all over the United States the opportunity to be together, learn about Judaism and have fun in a summer sleep-away camp environment." Certainly, given the level of activities provided by the Outdoor Program Leaders and Outdoor Program Aides on our staff, they weren't spending a lot of time learning about Judaism--they kept them pretty busy during the day. (The camp is located on the shores of a lake in a national wildlife refuge, and is close to a large state park, and a very large national forest. Activities in addition to the usual swimming, hiking and canoeing included campcraft and wilderness hiking and camping skills, rockclimbing, environmental studies programs and wildlife and bird identification.) I suspect the focus was on providing a pretty standard summer camp environment, with afternoon or evening classes on Judaism. In the American cultural milieu, children would not necessarily be routinely exposed to Judaism as they are to Christianity. From what i could see of it, they were mainly providing an enjoyable, and rather sophisticated summer camp experience for kids from an urban environment. This wasn't Meatballs, and an Outdoor Program Leader bears no resemblance to Bill Murray. Outdoor Program Leaders and Aides must meet standards set by the Outdoor Education Association, and OPLs usually already have a BS in Outdoor Ed, while OPAs are usually university students working for their BS. Program Directors usually have or are working toward a PhD in Outdoor Ed. It was a sophisticated camp. How much they learned about Judaism, i would not undertake to say. But in terms of outdoor ed, they got a very high level of sophisticated instruction and activity.

I went to a church run camp for a few years and it was so much fun that I can't remember if we ever even said a prayer. I remember the swimming, riding, mountain climbing, now that scared the **** outta me. Great experience!

I've had both experiences. As a middle-schooler I went to a camp run by the YMCA and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Lots of prayer but lots of other fun stuff, and the chapel was optional. If you didn't want to go you could just have free time.

As a tot, though, my parents sent me and all of my siblings to a church bible school that was run by sadists. And that's all I'll say on the matter.

What people will do to children, even other people, in the name of "religion.

It's those darn sadist run bible schools that give the remaining 10% of bible schools a bad name.

Hah. To be fair, I think that at that time (late 70's) people who enjoyed controlling and hurting other, smaller, people found that certain denominations in certain regions provided them with all the opportunity and cover required for years of abusive bliss.