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General Synod debates converting Muslims

 
 
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 03:46 am
The General Synod of the Church of England is to debate whether or not to proselytise for Christ. That is try to convert non Christians. The Muslims are generally ok with this, but the Bishops are not. Seems things are turned on their head.

Meanwhile the Dutch politician Geert Wilders has been banned from entering the UK because the Government doesnt like what he has to say about Islam. But as its the House of Lords which has invited him and as he has perfect freedom of movement within the EU, I dont see how they can ban him.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 602 • Replies: 18
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 04:07 am
@Steve 41oo,
The World Turned Upside Down, huh, Steve?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 09:34 am
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

The General Synod of the Church of England is to debate whether or not to proselytise for Christ. That is try to convert non Christians. The Muslims are generally ok with this, but the Bishops are not. Seems things are turned on their head.

Meanwhile the Dutch politician Geert Wilders has been banned from entering the UK because the Government doesnt like what he has to say about Islam. But as its the House of Lords which has invited him and as he has perfect freedom of movement within the EU, I dont see how they can ban him.


I thought that a Muslim that converts to another faith faces some sort of repurcussion?

Could this be a veiled attempt to get a "green light" to convert Britain's Jews? What with the influx of Muslims to Britain, this might be Britain's preventive maintenance and/or protection of their Jews?
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 09:41 am
@Steve 41oo,
Quote:
. . . The Muslims are generally ok with this, . . .

Generally? Maybe most in the UK.
I wouldn't advise trying it in Saudi Arabia.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 10:55 am
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

Meanwhile the Dutch politician Geert Wilders has been banned from entering the UK because the Government doesnt like what he has to say about Islam. But as its the House of Lords which has invited him and as he has perfect freedom of movement within the EU, I dont see how they can ban him.

Wilders is being barred from Britain on the same basis that Islamic extremist "preachers of hate" are excluded from the country.

The House of Lords didn't invite him but he came (though he got the official note that he wasn't wellcome earlier, in the Netherlands) at the invitation of Lord Pearson, the UK Independence Party peer.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:05 am
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

The General Synod of the Church of England is to debate whether or not to proselytise for Christ. That is try to convert non Christians. The Muslims are generally ok with this, but the Bishops are not. Seems things are turned on their head.


They debate quite a lot. That clergy should be barred from membership of the far-right British National Party , for instance. And that they won't have female bishops (at least not before 2014).

Paul Eddy, the traditionalist synod member:, btw, doesn't only want to convert Muslims, but Hindus; Buddhists and .... as well: "Jesus said to his disciples 'go and make disciples of all nations by baptising them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit and teaching them every thing I have commanded you'. So it's the duty of the Anglican Church to do this."
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:27 am
@Steve 41oo,
Quote:
The General Synod of the Church of England is to debate whether or not to proselytise for Christ.


Presumably they will discuss Eddie Izzard's "Cake or Death" tactics !

Quote:
There's no Church of England fundamentalism. We can't have Church of England fundamentalism. You know, like they have Islamic fundamentalism. Jihad! … Ah ha … Church of England fundamentalism is impossible because you can't have: "You must have tea and cake with the vicar... or you die!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVjKlBCvhg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:39 am
@fresco,
Conrad le Despenser Roden Noel intended "to bring to life again the ancient worship of the English church with the Eucharist at its centre" nearly a century ago. But he was .... well, 'on the other side', a Socialist, founder of the Catholic Crusade, and only vicar of Thaxted in Essex by private patronage.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 12:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Wilders is being barred from Britain on the same basis that Islamic extremist "preachers of hate" are excluded from the country...
But Wilders only seeks to show how Islamic preachers of hate (or their followers) end up cutting people's heads off.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 12:38 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Really? Did you read what he writes, did you see the film already?
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 03:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Really? Did you read what he writes, did you see the film already?
No, I haven't seen Fitna, but I would like to, so I can make up my own mind. The British Government doesn't want me to see it..
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 03:34 pm
@Steve 41oo,
So you were invited by the UK Independence Party to watch it at the House of Lords?

However, you can get from the BNP. Or via google.video.
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 03:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Have you seen Fitna Walter?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 04:08 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Yes, the first couple of minutes. Those reminded me of the worst Nazi films* - it's the very same kind of making - and I couldn't watch it longer. (Any major NAZI website offers it for download as well.)
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 06:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I understand your anger against anything which reeks of nazism. I've read up on Wilders, he seems a complex character. I dont agree with his stance on economics, but I do think he should be able to express his view that Islam is not a religion of peace. Whether that amounts to incitement to hatred of Muslims per se is another matter. Anyway Wilders proposed visit here is causing quite a stir, the Dutch ambassador has said if necessary he will meet him at Heathrow, to ensure his safe passage.
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 06:56 am
@Steve 41oo,
This article in the Daily Telegraph sums up my view pretty well

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/4604985/Whatever-happened-to-free-speech.html

This incident really is shameful and embarrassing for Britain. But its not the first and wont be the last. And neither will it win back the Muslim vote in the northern cities. The government is clearly incapable of taking a principled stand on anything.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 08:50 am
@Steve 41oo,
That's quite interesting: so you would support that some German neo-nazi was invited, some Muslim extremist, some other foreign hardliner to express their opinion ... just because it's free speech?

What about the General Synod debates, btw? Is the Anglican Church now mass-converting Muslims?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 09:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

What about the General Synod debates, btw? Is the Anglican Church now mass-converting Muslims?


The debate is this afternoon, on the basis of a paper prepared by Dr Martin Davie for the Theological Group of the House of Bishops:
Quote:
This paper is intended as a theological resource for General Synod members and
others wanting to think further about the issue of the uniqueness of Jesus Christ in the
light of the Private Member’s Motion by Mr. Paul Eddy asking:
That this Synod request the House of Bishops to report to the Synod on their
understanding of the uniqueness of Christ in Britain’s multi-faith society, and
offer examples and commendations of good practice in sharing the gospel of
salvation through Jesus Christ alone with people of other faith and of none.
On the basis that Church of England theology needs to be rooted in Scripture, but also
needs to take into account the Catholic Creeds, the Reformation formularies and
contemporary theological reflection, the section begins by looking at how the
uniqueness of Jesus Christ is understood in the Bible. It then looks in turn at what is
said about the uniqueness of Christ in the Creeds and the Chalcedonian Definition, the
historic formularies and in recent material from the Church of England and the
Anglican Communio


Link to full paper
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 02:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Well you are right that the subject of this thread has been somewhat hijacked by the minor question about Wilders...

I dont know what the Synod decided, I would expect them to support "The Uniqueness of Christ"...but then its the Church of England so they could vote for anything, including women Satanists.

However not 10 minutes ago I listened to "Any Questions" a well respected political/topical debate programme on BBC radio 4. Every member of the panel when asked said Wilders should have been allowed into the UK. In the theatre in Richmond, N Yorkshire...(a beautiful building and a lovely town...I'll take you there one day) every member of the audience except one, voted the same way.

To address your point specifically about a neo nazi wanting to come here, well I would have to allow that too. Providing he did not explicity incite violence. You might say Wilders, by his mere presence, incites violence. But passive existence incites nothing. And even if it did, he was in the UK a few weeks ago without any fuss. Smile

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