5
   

Golden Gate Bridge Officials Vote for Suicide Net

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:24 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
The group also cites a study of 515 people who were stopped from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. It concluded that 94% of them were alive or had died naturally long after their thwarted attempts.


I never would have thought that the percentage would be that high. Conventional wisdom isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yes thanks, ehBeth.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:26 pm
Let me play the Devil's advocate here and ask the question which has probably not occurred to anyone: Why do we put such great value on preventing suicides? If a person is bound and determined to end it all by doing a double somersault into the narrows that separate the Pacific Ocean from San Francisco Bay, why are we trying to stop them? Doesn't a person have a right to make that decision for oneself?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:29 pm
@Merry Andrew,
People who makes those decisions are not the same people that generally occupy that skin, MA.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:32 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew, the longer article I linked to talks about the difference between the people who commit suicide impulsively and those who commit suicide after long periods of depression and consideration of suicide. They're quite different groups, and it's the impulsive group that things like the veil are meant to help.

Oddly (to my initial thinking on this), the impulsive group tends to pick more dramatic methods that are more successful than the techniques selected by long-term depressives. So, the bound and determined group isn't likely to be in the jumping group.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:39 pm
@ehBeth,
I've talked before about hot states and cold states, and how different the same person can be from one state to another. Their brains actually look different (in terms of MRIs and such.) Can try to find the original research back.

But I came away from that thinking that reducing options for people to impulsively kill themselves -- handguns sitting around unlocked at home, high bridges with no safeguards -- would be a good thing.

Only so much you can do of course, and I'm not anti-euthanasia, for example. The impulsive part of this equation is really important.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:47 pm
@sozobe,
Ah, it was that "Futile Pursuit of Happiness" article again -- really loved that.

Quote:
In a recent experiment, Loewenstein tried to find out how likely people might be to dance alone to Rick James's ''Super Freak'' in front of a large audience. Many agreed to do so for a certain amount of money a week in advance, only to renege when the day came to take the stage. This sounds like a goof, but it gets at the fundamental difference between how we behave in ''hot'' states (those of anxiety, courage, fear, drug craving, sexual excitation and the like) and ''cold'' states of rational calm. This empathy gap in thought and behavior -- we cannot seem to predict how we will behave in a hot state when we are in a cold state -- affects happiness in an important but somewhat less consistent way than the impact bias. ''So much of our lives involves making decisions that have consequences for the future,'' Loewenstein says. ''And if our decision making is influenced by these transient emotional and psychological states, then we know we're not making decisions with an eye toward future consequences.'' This may be as simple as an unfortunate proclamation of love in a moment of lust, Loewenstein explains, or something darker, like an act of road rage or of suicide.


http://healthandenergy.com/pursuit_of_happiness.htm

I don't think that was the entirety of what I had in mind, but that's the kernel.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 03:58 pm
@sozobe,
What she said.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 04:10 pm
Since some folks here have done some reading on the subject -- is there any connection between the level of impulsiveness of the act and the likelihood of leaving a suicide note?

Reason I ask is, about 12 years or so ago, my uncle commited suicide. He hung himself at work. He worked in construction, and hung himself at an in-progress job site in a conspicuous location -- i.e., somewhere where people would be sure to see him right away when they came in to work. He left no note.

It struck me as a very dramatic sort of gesture from a person who had been very methodical and duty-bound and undramatic his entire life. And I wonder if the act of writing a note, of having to cool down and put one's thoughts in order, is in itself something of a deterrent if the decision to kill yourself isn't a rational one...
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 04:21 pm
@patiodog,
patiodog wrote:
And I wonder if the act of writing a note, of having to cool down and put one's thoughts in order, is in itself something of a deterrent if the decision to kill yourself isn't a rational one...


There's something about this in the NYT article I linked as source-doc.

Quote:
Beyond sheer lethality, however, what makes gun suicide attempts so resistant to traditional psychological suicide-prevention protocols is the high degree of impulsivity that often accompanies them. In a 1985 study of 30 people who had survived self-inflicted gunshot wounds, more than half reported having had suicidal thoughts for less than 24 hours, and none of the 30 had written suicide notes.


Quote:
“The goal is to put more time between the person and his ability to act,” Miller said. “If he has to go down to the basement to get his ammunition or rummage around in his dresser for the key to the gun safe, you’re injecting time and effort into the equation " maybe just a couple of minutes, but in a lot of cases that may be enough.”

It reminded me of what Richard Seiden said about people thwarted from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. When I mentioned this to Miller, he smiled. “It’s very much the same,” he said. “The more obstacles you can throw up, the more you move it away from being an impulsive act. And once you’ve done that, you take a lot of people out of the game. If you look at how people get into trouble, it’s usually because they’re acting impulsively, they haven’t thought things through. And that’s just as true with suicides as it is with traffic accidents.”


Too bad you can't make people leave a suicide note, but when you're working with 5 minutes to an hour in some cases ... they don't have time to think

Quote:
In a 2001 University of Houston study of 153 survivors of nearly lethal attempts between the ages of 13 and 34, only 13 percent reported having contemplated their act for eight hours or longer. To the contrary, 70 percent set the interval between deciding to kill themselves and acting at less than an hour, including an astonishing 24 percent who pegged the interval at less than five minutes.



0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 04:29 pm
Thanks, eh. (Guess I could have done my own homework.)

So counterintuitive...
RexRed
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 05:43 pm
San Francisco style high wire circus act. Smile
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 07:37 pm
@patiodog,
it was a lonnnng article (I cheated, put it on 'single page view' and did a word find)
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 07:51 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
ffs let the motherfuckers die. why waste our energy to keep someone here who doesnt want to be?

what are they gonan do now, get caught in the net, and climb to the edge of it?

jump off office buldings and land on people instead of water?

LOL.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 07:56 pm
@OGIONIK,
Maybe read some of the reference material and then try chiming in.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 07:38 pm
@OGIONIK,

If they are attempting to kill themselves in the way you think they ought to - why are you calling them motherfuckers?
0 Replies
 
 

 
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