Reply
Mon 7 Jul, 2008 08:56 am
I appear to be somewhat deficient in a sort of revulsion reflex that a lot of people seem to have.
For example, lots of people appear to have what they deem (I think) to be an innate revulsion for homosexuality, paedophilia (the desire, not the act), transexuality...stuff like that.
I cannot recall ever experiencing these things. I can recall as an adolescent going along with a few ewwws about homosexuality, since I wanted to appear part of the herd, but I know I never actually FELT any revulsion.
I do have an extreme response to violence, but I am blood and injury phobic...and that is about people being hurt.
Anyhoo.......this "natural revulsion" stuff...I am wondering if we think it really IS natural, or do we think we have it because we pick up, however subliminally, on the attitudes of those around us?
I am trying to imagine why we might be deemed to DEVELOP any such "innate" revulsion? I can imagine that we might, as a very threatened minor species, have developed a strong preference for something about heterosexuals, as children were necessary......but why would we need revulsion?
I know that mice, for instance, are sexually repelled by the scent of near relatives, so I can imagine something innate and helpful about revulsion to incest having developed...
But, I do find a lot of the so-called "natural" revulsion pretty unlikely.
I am not saying I don't become over-invested emotionally with disliking some things.....and it becomes what I experience as a visceral revulsion (like political views that are really abhorrent to me)...but I think this is a learned response, though the emotional reaction itself seems "natural" if over done.
So....do you experience these revulsions to things that you think are somehow innate?
Do you think a lot of it is learned?
I think it is 100% learned. Perhaps it's learned so early that one can't remember learning it, so it seems "innate."
Carefully Taught from South Pacific
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
I agree with mac11 - 100% learned behaviour.
It's interesting how many people appear, at least to me, to operate with sme sort of belief that it is "natural", which I take to mean inborn in some way.
Hopefully, some "frequent revulsers" will come along and clarify their beliefs about their revulsion.
This would be an interesting topic for the philosophy forum, dlowan. Some thinkers believe that such universal reactions indicate that there can be a universal system of ethics. Other thinkers believe that all morality is relative.
wandeljw wrote:This would be an interesting topic for the philosophy forum, dlowan. Some thinkers believe that such universal reactions indicate that there can be a universal system of ethics. Other thinkers believe that all morality is relative.
Yeah...I thought of philosophy...but I think this is too undisciplined a question, really.
And.....I guess I am by no means convinced they are "universal" at all.
I do think there are ethics that almost universally make sense (and some degree of apparent altruism appears to be innate).
Sure I do believe it's a learned behavior.
But behaviors can be modified by your thought and the ontogeny associated to human minds.
Along with the maturation, you develop a set of morals that influence your behavior.
Statiscally you have people that develop a different set of morals that clash with yours.
In the end the fittest will prevail but you will always have marginal behaviors.
You could change the title of the thread to "Post-Kantian Analyses of Absolute and Relative Morality".
Yes - subliminal learning/ picking up along the way...
My 3 yo daughter looked at a black man this weekend as her dad did some transaction with him and said in a very 'observing' tone: "He's very dark." She had no reason to make this comment. Both the daycares she's been in over the past 2 years have had an excellent blend of all colors. The best I could come up with in response at that moment was: "People come in all colors." Left it at that b/c I wasn't sure how much more I should say just yet. Observed the man some more and noticed that he *was* darker than all the other adults/children she has directly interacted with so far, but still scratched my head over her comment. Later on, talked about how it is not polite to comment on people. I know it won't make an impact just yet, but now I know I have to keep talking about it in casual conversation with her.
I can scoop a cat box, talk to a kid while he's picking his nose, investigate slime-mold, take the compost to the recycling center. But, when my niece wiggles a loose tooth at me I get nauseous. Go figure.
wandeljw wrote:You could change the title of the thread to "Post-Kantian Analyses of Absolute and Relative Morality".
Ah, but then I might have been afraid to open it
Re: Ewwww and Yecchhh and the whole damn thing.
dlowan wrote:So....do you experience these revulsions to things that you think are somehow innate?
Only with acoustical sensations -- fingernails on a blackboard, or two boards of styrofoam rubbing against each other or ... I have to stop, I get goosebumps (the bad kind) just writing about it.
The other stuff -- slugs, frogs, body secretions, and anything that offends any sense other than hearing -- no.
dlowan wrote:wandeljw wrote:You could change the title of the thread to "Post-Kantian Analyses of Absolute and Relative Morality".
Ewwwwwwwwww!!!!!
Yecccchhhhhh!!!!
Now THAT is a universal reaction!
wandeljw wrote:dlowan wrote:wandeljw wrote:You could change the title of the thread to "Post-Kantian Analyses of Absolute and Relative Morality".
Ewwwwwwwwww!!!!!
Yecccchhhhhh!!!!
Now THAT is a universal reaction!
But definitely learned......via having a major in philosophy at uni!!!!
_Heatwave_ wrote:Yes - subliminal learning/ picking up along the way...
My 3 yo daughter looked at a black man this weekend as her dad did some transaction with him and said in a very 'observing' tone: "He's very dark." She had no reason to make this comment. Both the daycares she's been in over the past 2 years have had an excellent blend of all colors. The best I could come up with in response at that moment was: "People come in all colors." Left it at that b/c I wasn't sure how much more I should say just yet. Observed the man some more and noticed that he *was* darker than all the other adults/children she has directly interacted with so far, but still scratched my head over her comment. Later on, talked about how it is not polite to comment on people. I know it won't make an impact just yet, but now I know I have to keep talking about it in casual conversation with her.
I can't see why you are agonising over this. Your child made an honest observation. You gave an honest response. End of story.
Re: Ewwww and Yecchhh and the whole damn thing.
Thomas wrote:dlowan wrote:So....do you experience these revulsions to things that you think are somehow innate?
Only with acoustical sensations -- fingernails on a blackboard, or two boards of styrofoam rubbing against each other or ... I have to stop, I get goosebumps (the bad kind) just writing about it.
The other stuff -- slugs, frogs, body secretions, and anything that offends any sense other than hearing -- no.
I cannot imagine how fingernails on blackboards or styrofoam get to have "innate" responses!!!!
Perhaps they resemble the sound made by rockfalls or caves collapsing or something?
We do appear to have some sort of innate response to snakes and such.
For instance, you can create phobic responses to almost anything, but those traditional ones..such as snakes and spiders...are much easier to create, and much harder to extinguish, than most.
Quote:I can't see why you are agonising over this. Your child made an honest observation. You gave an honest response. End of story.
No offense to Heatwave, but I agree. I think I'd let it go. To keep bringing it up and discussing it will probably have the opposite effect of what you were trying to achieve.
Re: Ewwww and Yecchhh and the whole damn thing.
dlowan wrote:I cannot imagine how fingernails on blackboards or styrofoam get to have "innate" responses!!!!
But you
can imagine that is learned? Although I haven't researched the subject, I'd be willing to bet high odds that those goosebumps are visceral and innate. In fact, I'd predict you'd see those goosebumps on newborns when you make these screechy sounds near them.
Re: Ewwww and Yecchhh and the whole damn thing.
Thomas wrote:dlowan wrote:I cannot imagine how fingernails on blackboards or styrofoam get to have "innate" responses!!!!
But you
can imagine that is learned? Although I haven't researched the subject, I'd be willing to bet high odds that those goosebumps are visceral and innate. In fact, I'd predict you'd see those goosebumps on newborns when you make these screechy sounds near them.
Time to hit the post-natal wards with our fingernails and blackboards and find out!!!!
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace