0
   

Top scientist claims black people 'stupid'

 
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:03 am
Tigershark - I'm not responsible for my government acts but you are obviously responsible for your inane behaviour...
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:03 am
Laughable - so sue me,tosser.

Positive genetic match with the child to bloodstains from the boot of parents' car. Just today, I believe?
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:04 am
Francis wrote:
Tigershark - I'm not responsible for my government acts but you are obviously responsible for your inane behaviour...


Va te faire foutre.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:07 am
And you do think these kind of insults will lead you somewhere?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:08 am
If you are so keen to be sued, just get in touch with the McCann's lawyers. And make further posts on the appropriate thread.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:35 am
Gentlemen! Chill out.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:39 am
jespah wrote:
Gentlemen! Chill out.




Your avatar looks so apt with that post!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 07:17 am
Regardless of how this goes around and around, certain facts remain.

First, that Watson clearly is saying that Africans (and by implication from his remarks about black employees, all the descendants of Africans as well) are genetically predisposed to a lower intelligence than other "races."

Second, the fact remains that none of those who want to portray Watson as a martyr to the truth, nor those who are so eager to provide "proof" that what he says is so, have provided a shred of evidence that there is any such genetic predisposition. All we've seen here are references to "intelligence" testing of a dubious reliability; and a clear statement from the APA's review committee that "IQ" testing is only an indicator of the future academic performance of individuals, and not a statement about any group, and further, that the APA review committee states clearly that there is no basis for any contentions about genetic influences on "intelligence " in groups.

Finally, the fact remains that there have been and continue to be so many people in this thread eager to assert that Watson is correct, and is being martyred (oh please) for speaking the truth. It says a lot about people that they are so eager to support such a thesis.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:22 am
Setanta wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Setanta wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Setanta - all your questions in this latest post are addressed on linked article.


Bullshit--first of all, that linked article does not consider the cultural aspect of such testing, ....."


Blah. Blah, blah, blah. "Cultural" is meaningless, "numbers" rule. ............sorry to see that some overriding PC folly drives you to insulting persons and statistics which are known - known - to you to be true beyond doubt.
....................................


You ought to know better than that--but i guess you can't stand to renounce your racist glee. .....................
.................................................................
.


Setanta - you've known me long enough to learn I'm a mathematician. And I've known you for the same amount of time - so I find your contempt for elementary scientific methods nothing short of appalling.

What nobody has done is proven Prof. Watson's statement on "all testing" is false.

Some progress can be noted since the days that Galileo was tortured for stating a scientific fact, however: Prof. Watson isn't tortured, he merely suffers getting fired from his job and having all his speaking engagements cancelled.

Read a book called "The Demon-Haunted World" sometime: that horror, argues the author (a noted scientist), is exactly what lies underneath our thin veneer of Western Civilization. And PC is part-and-parcel of that primitive superstitious savagery - as this thread only too depressingly illustrates.

As to your incoherent statement alleging "racist glee": I hope your health gets better soon - you're very obviously mentally confused if you no longer distinguish between numbers and those 'haunting demons' Smile
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 10:40 am
Tigershark wrote:
This is a pointless thread.

I got drawn into a similar 'discussion' some time ago. The guy asked me 'Name one thing a black person has invented.' Must admit, I struggled with that one. Embarrassed


Take a course in American History and stop the struggle to find bright and productive African-Americans and other individuals of color.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 10:50 am
It doesn't seem altogether fair to expect foreigners to know American history, specifically that of the Democratic Party, so here are some of their quotes on this very subject..... and before anyone tries to link me to any of them, neither I nor anyone in my family is now, or ever was, a member of the Democratic party - we're Republicans, one and all Smile

Quote:

Blacks "are inferior to the whites in the endowments of both of body and mind."

--Thomas Jefferson, 1787
Co-founder of the Democratic Party (along with Andrew Jackson)
President, 1801-09

"I hold that the present state of civilization, where two races of different origin, and distinguished by color, and other physical differences, as well as intellectual, are brought together, the relation now existing in the slaveholding states between the two, is, instead of an evil, a good--a positive good."

--Sen. John C. Calhoun (D., S.C.), 1837
Vice President, 1825-32
His statue stands in the U.S. Capitol.

If blacks were given the right to vote, that would "place every splay-footed, bandy-shanked, hump-backed, thick-lipped, flat-nosed, woolly-headed, ebon-colored Negro in the country upon an equality with the poor white man."

--Rep. Andrew Johnson, (D., Tenn.), 1844
President, 1865-69

"Resolved, That the Democratic Party will resist all attempts at renewing, in Congress or out of it, the agitation of the slavery question, under whatever shape or color the attempt may be made."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1852

Blacks are "a subordinate and inferior class of beings who had been subjugated by the dominant race."

--Chief Justice Roger Taney, Dred Scott v. Sandford, 1856
Appointed Attorney General by Andrew Jackson in 1831
Appointed Secretary of the Treasury by Andrew Jackson in 1833
Appointed to the Supreme Court by Andrew Jackson in 1836

"Resolved, That claiming fellowship with, and desiring the co-operation of all who regard the preservation of the Union under the Constitution as the paramount issue--and repudiating all sectional parties and platforms concerning domestic slavery, which seek to embroil the States and incite to treason and armed resistance to law in the Territories; and whose avowed purposes, if consummated, must end in civil war and disunion, the American Democracy recognize and adopt the principles contained in the organic laws establishing the Territories of Kansas and Nebraska as embodying the only sound and safe solution of the 'slavery question' upon which the great national idea of the people of this whole country can repose in its determined conservatism of the Union--NON-INTERFERENCE BY CONGRESS WITH SLAVERY IN STATE AND TERRITORY, OR IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA" (emphasis in original).

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1856

"I hold that a Negro is not and never ought to be a citizen of the United States. I hold that this government was made on the white basis; made by the white men, for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever, and should be administered by white men and none others."

--Sen. Stephen A. Douglas (D., Ill.), 1858
Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, 1860

"Resolved, That the enactments of the State Legislatures to defeat the faithful execution of the Fugitive Slave Law, are hostile in character, subversive of the Constitution, and revolutionary in their effect."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1860

"The Almighty has fixed the distinction of the races; the Almighty has made the black man inferior, and, sir, by no legislation, by no military power, can you wipe out this distinction."

--Rep. Fernando Wood (D., N.Y.), 1865
Mayor of New York City, 1855-58, 1860-62

"My fellow citizens, I have said that the contest before us was one for the restoration of our government; it is also one for the restoration of our race. It is to prevent the people of our race from being exiled from their homes--exiled from the government which they formed and created for themselves and for their children, and to prevent them from being driven out of the country or trodden under foot by an inferior and barbarous race."

--Francis P. Blair Jr., accepting the Democratic nomination for Vice President, 1868
Democratic Senator from Missouri, 1869-72
His statue stands in the U.S. Capitol.

"Instead of restoring the Union, it [the Republican Party] has, so far as in its power, dissolved it, and subjected ten states, in time of profound peace, to military despotism and Negro supremacy."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1868

"While the tendency of the white race is upward, the tendency of the colored race is downward."

--Sen. Thomas Hendricks (D., Ind.), 1869
Democratic nominee for Vice President, 1876
Vice President, 1885

"We, the delegates of the Democratic party of the United States . . . demand such modification of the treaty with the Chinese Empire, or such legislation within constitutional limitations, as shall prevent further importation or immigration of the Mongolian race."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1876

"No more Chinese immigration, except for travel, education, and foreign commerce, and that even carefully guarded."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1880

"American civilization demands that against the immigration or importation of Mongolians to these shores our gates be closed."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1884

"We favor the continuance and strict enforcement of the Chinese exclusion law, and its application to the same classes of all Asiatic races."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1900

"The repeal of the fifteenth amendment, one of the greatest blunders and therefore one of the greatest crimes in political history, is a consummation to be devoutly wished for."

--Rep. John Sharpe Williams (D., Miss.), 1903
House Minority Leader, 1903-08

"Republicanism means Negro equality, while the Democratic Party means that the white man is supreme. That is why we Southerners are all Democrats."

--Sen. Ben Tillman (D., S.C.), 1906
Chairman, Committee on Naval Affairs, 1913-19

"We are opposed to the admission of Asiatic immigrants who can not be amalgamated with our population, or whose presence among us would raise a race issue and involve us in diplomatic controversies with Oriental powers."

--Platform of the Democratic Party, 1908

"I am opposed to the practice of having colored policemen in the District [of Columbia]. It is a source of danger by constantly engendering racial friction, and is offensive to thousands of Southern white people who make their homes here."

--Sen. Hoke Smith (D., Ga.), 1912
Appointed Secretary of the Interior by Grover Cleveland in 1893

"The South is serious with regard to its attitude to the Negro in politics. The South understands this subject, and its policy is unalterable and uncompromising. We desire no concessions. We seek no sops. We grasp no shadows on this subject. We take no risks. We abhor a Northern policy of catering to the Negro in politics just as we abhor a Northern policy of social equality."

--Josephus Daniels, editor, Raleigh News & Observer, 1912
Appointed Secretary of the Navy by Woodrow Wilson in 1913
Appointed Ambassador to Mexico by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933
USS Josephus Daniels named for him by the Johnson Administration in 1965

"The Negro as a race, in all the ages of the world, has never shown sustained power of self-development. He is not endowed with the creative faculty. . . . He has never created for himself any civilization. . . . He has never had any civilization except that which has been inculcated by a superior race. And it is a lamentable fact that his civilization lasts only so long as he is in the hands of the white man who inculcates it. When left to himself he has universally gone back to the barbarism of the jungle."

--Sen. James Vardaman (D., Miss.), 1914
Chairman, Committee on Natural Resources, 1913-19

"This is a white man's country, and will always remain a white man's country."

--Rep. James F. Byrnes (D., S.C.), 1919
Appointed to the Supreme Court by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1941
Appointed Secretary of State by Harry S. Truman in 1945

"Slavery among the whites was an improvement over independence in Africa. The very progress that the blacks have made, when--and only when--brought into contact with the whites, ought to be a sufficient argument in support of white supremacy--it ought to be sufficient to convince even the blacks themselves."

--William Jennings Bryan, 1923
Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, 1896, 1900 and 1908
Appointed Secretary of State by Woodrow Wilson in 1913
His statue stands in the U.S. Capitol.

"Anyone who has traveled to the Far East knows that the mingling of Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results. . . . The argument works both ways. I know a great many cultivated, highly educated and delightful Japanese. They have all told me that they would feel the same repugnance and objection to have thousands of Americans settle in Japan and intermarry with the Japanese as I would feel in having large numbers of Japanese coming over here and intermarry with the American population. In this question, then, of Japanese exclusion from the United States it is necessary only to advance the true reason--the undesirability of mixing the blood of the two peoples. . . . The Japanese people and the American people are both opposed to intermarriage of the two races--there can be no quarrel there."

--Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1925
President, 1933-45

"This passport which you have given me is a symbol to me of the passport which you have given me before. I do not feel that it would be out of place to state to you here on this occasion that I know that without the support of the members of this organization I would not have been called, even by my enemies, the 'Junior Senator from Alabama.' "

--Hugo Black, accepting a life membership in the Ku Klux Klan upon his election to the U.S. Senate as a Democrat from Alabama, 1926
Appointed to the Supreme Court by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1937

"Mr. President, the crime of lynching . . . is not of sufficient importance to justify this legislation."

--Sen. Claude Pepper (D., Fla.), 1938
Spoken while engaged in a six-hour speech against the antilynching bill

"I am a former Kleagle [recruiter] of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County. . . . The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia. It is necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state in the union."

--Robert C. Byrd, 1946
Democratic Senator from West Virginia, 1959-present
Senate Majority Leader, 1977-80 and 1987-88
Senate President Pro Tempore, 1989-95, 2001-03, 2007-present
His portrait stands in the U.S. Capitol.

President Truman's civil rights program "is a farce and a sham--an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty. I am opposed to that program. I have voted against the so-called poll tax repeal bill. . .. I have voted against the so-called anti-lynching bill."

--Rep. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1948
U.S. Senator, 1949-61
Senate Majority Leader, 1955-61
President, 1963-69

"There is no warrant for the curious notion that Christianity favors the involuntary commingling of the races in social institutions. Although He knew both Jews and Samaritans and the relations existing between them, Christ did not advocate that courts or legislative bodies should compel them to mix socially against their will."

--Sen. Sam Ervin (D., N.C.), 1955
Chairman, Committee on Government Operations, 1971-75

"The decline and fall of the Roman empire came after years of intermarriage with other races. Spain was toppled as a world power as a result of the amalgamation of the races. . . . Certainly history shows that nations composed of a mongrel race lose their strength and become weak, lazy and indifferent."

--Herman E. Talmadge, 1955
Democratic Senator from Georgia, 1957-81
Chairman, Committee on Agriculture, 1971-81

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again."

--Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1957

"I have never seen very many white people who felt they were being imposed upon or being subjected to any second-class citizenship if they were directed to a waiting room or to any other public facility to wait or to eat with other white people. Only the Negroes, of all the races which are in this land, publicly proclaim they are being mistreated, imposed upon, and declared second-class citizens because they must go to public facilities with members of their own race."

--Sen. Richard B. Russell Jr. (D., Ga.), 1961
The Russell Senate Office Building is named for him.

"I did not lie awake at night worrying about the problems of Negroes."

--Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, 1961
Kennedy later authorized wiretapping the phones and bugging the hotel rooms of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"I'm not going to use the federal government's authority deliberately to circumvent the natural inclination of people to live in ethnically homogeneous neighborhoods. . . . I have nothing against a community that's made up of people who are Polish or Czechoslovakian or French-Canadian or blacks who are trying to maintain the ethnic purity of their neighborhoods."

--Jimmy Carter, 1976
President, 1977-81
Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, 2002

"The Confederate Memorial has had a special place in my life for many years. . . . There were many, many times that I found myself drawn to this deeply inspiring memorial, to contemplate the sacrifices of others, several of whom were my ancestors, whose enormous suffering and collective gallantry are to this day still misunderstood by most Americans."

--James Webb, 1990
Now a Democratic Senator from Virginia

"Everybody likes to go to Geneva. I used to do it for the Law of the Sea conferences and you'd find these potentates from down in Africa, you know, rather than eating each other, they'd just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva."

--Sen. Ernest F. Hollings (D., S.C.) 1993
Chairman, Commerce Committee, 1987-95 and 2001-03
Candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, 1984

"I do not think it is an exaggeration at all to say to my friend from West Virginia [Sen. Robert C. Byrd, a former Ku Klux Klan recruiter] that he would have been a great senator at any moment. . . . He would have been right during the great conflict of civil war in this nation."

--Sen. Christopher Dodd (D., Conn.), 2004
Chairman, Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs
Candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, 2008

* "You cannot go into a Dunkin' Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent."

* "My state was a slave state. My state is a border state. My state has the eighth largest black population in the country. My state is anything [but] a Northeastern liberal state."

* "I mean, you got the first mainstream African American [Barack Obama] who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy."

* "There's less than 1% of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than 4% or 5% that is, are minorities. What is it in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."

Sen. Joseph Biden Jr., (D., Del.), 2006-07
Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, 1987-95
Chairman, Committee on Foreign Relations
Candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, 2008
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110011033
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 11:35 am
High Seas wrote:
Setanta - you've known me long enough to learn I'm a mathematician. And I've known you for the same amount of time - so I find your contempt for elementary scientific methods nothing short of appalling.


If the scientific method is used while counting the number of electrons which hit a target, that's a sound application. If the scientific method is used to replicate an experiment, that's a sound application. If the scientific method is used to falsify the terms of a theory, that's a sound application.

When it is alleged that the scientific method has been properly applied with definitions which are suspect, and data which does not directly correlate to the conclusions--such as is the case in intelligence testing--that is not a sound application. Define intelligence. Demonstrate that scientists know precisely which parts of the human genome determine intelligence. Demonstrate that any reputable scientist has identified the portions of the genome which determine intelligence, and has shown, even on a statistical basis, that that portion of the genome is not as robust in Africans with black skin than it is in other Africans or anyone else living outside of Africa.

Quote:
What nobody has done is proven Prof. Watson's statement on "all testing" is false.


Only Watson, and those alleging that his hypothesis is sound, have the burden of proving that "all the testing" is accurate and unambiguously demonstrates what Watson claims it does, and represents a reliable measure of "intelligence" (once again, undefined in this or any context used in this thread), and has been linked in a scientifically sound manner to the genetic compositions of members of any alleged race.

Failing that, neither Watson nor anyone claiming his hypothesis is valid has plausibly applied the scientific method. Those making extraordinary claims have the burden of proof--no one is obliged to disprove the extraordinary claims of others. I have seen no evidence from Watson, nor from anyone in this thread that even plausibly--never mind conclusively--demonstrates that black Africans as a group are genetically disposed to be less intelligent than the members of any other alleged "race."

Quote:
Some progress can be noted since the days that Galileo was tortured for stating a scientific fact, however: Prof. Watson isn't tortured, he merely suffers getting fired from his job and having all his speaking engagements cancelled.


Watson was not fired, he resigned. It may have turned out to be the case that he would have been "fired," but we cannot know that for certain. Given that Watson is 79 years of age, and is comfortably well-off from the various remunerations of his career, i am not going to believe that any dire hardship has been worked against him.

Whether fired or resigned, and for whatever speaking engagements have been canceled, it remains true that he advanced an hypothesis for which he provided no evidence, and which he subsequently retracted. None of his actions were in the spirit of the scientific method. Had he advanced an hypothesis for which he alleged that he had sufficient evidence, but which was subsequently shown not to be reliable or plausible evidence, and he then retracted his statements, but still lost his position and his speaking engagements, one might be justified in making him out to be some kind of martyr to the spirit of free speech--although that would be a stretch even in that case. But when he shoots off his mouth without any basis, and suffers the consequences, i feel no regret for what he brought down on his own head, and consider that the attempt to portray him as a victim of any kind of witch hunt to be laughable.

Quote:
Read a book called "The Demon-Haunted World" sometime: that horror, argues the author (a noted scientist), is exactly what lies underneath our thin veneer of Western Civilization. And PC is part-and-parcel of that primitive superstitious savagery - as this thread only too depressingly illustrates.


Political rectitude is as prominently visible from the right-wing of the political spectrum as it is alleged to be from the left. Once again, Watson is suffering the consequences of having stupidly shot his mouth off, he is not the victim of any witch hunt. Someone of his stature cannot be silenced by the furor which has arisen in the press over his remarks, and there are sufficient conservatives and racists who will want to carry his banner and wrap themselves in the flag of free speech, that were he to attempt to continue to insist upon his hypothesis, he'd get all the attention, as would his idiotic hypothesis, that anyone could want.

Spare us the histrionics.

[quore]As to your incoherent statement alleging "racist glee": I hope your health gets better soon - you're very obviously mentally confused if you no longer distinguish between numbers and those 'haunting demons'[/quote]

There is nothing incoherent in pointing out that there are many people who have long believed that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites. This incident with the clown Watson has given them the opportunity to appear plausible while they trot out their own haunting demon of oversexed and dull-witted but athletic blacks waiting to destroy all that is good and holy in "white" culture. So spare me your idiotic emoticons and your snotty comments about my mental state. Look to your own mental state because . . .

Neither Watson nor anyone in this thread has provided a shred of evidence that there is any genetic predisposition in blacks to be less intelligent than whites. Watson's remarks clearly imply that black Africans are intellectually inferior on a genetic basis.

No one in this thread has even provided a definition of intelligence which could reasonably be linked to the human genome for sake of determining such a thing.

Puke up all the numbers you want, HS--you have neither demonstrated that blacks are less intelligent, nor have you demonstrated that there is any evidence that this is a genetic fact.

Loon.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 12:11 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
I'm not going to go any further with this. Many factors influence intelligence including environment and genetic inheritance. We all have equal moral worth but we are not all the same, no matter how much I would wish it were so. I hope intelligence has no correlation with race, but I suspect it does - though differences between groups are clearly much less than differences within groups. Its important to bear in mind that its the individual who really matters.


Yes and there's plenty of people of towering intelligence who have no common sense.

I've known several.
0 Replies
 
Pamela Rosa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:32 pm
Quote:

http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_african_iq.htm


Quote:

http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_iq_conundrum.htm


about author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 03:35 am
My friend, at a graduation ceremony at Oxford University, reported that among the MSc and PhD prizewinning graduates there was a proponderance of asiatics.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 05:11 am
My friend reports that some research workers in this field have to have armed guards.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 05:37 am
What "field" precisely, is that?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 10:04 am
race and intelligence. Its dangerous.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 11:15 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
race and intelligence. Its dangerous.


Another person I know said in the 1950s and before, who knows what conditions apply now, there was an unofficial limit placed on Jewish applicants for Manchester University in certain faculties, because to have completely open entry (ie. on the basis of merit) would have meant that Jews were hugely and embarrassingly (for some) over-represented.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 12:52 pm
well there you go

is it antisemitic to suggest jews are abnormally intelligent?
0 Replies
 
 

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