neologist wrote:There was two parts to my post and you picked the one I offered with a disclaimer.
But never mind.
You may say this represents a disclaimer, but Agrote's question which sparked this was whether "morality" derives from your god, or whether it is innate. You state that it is innate. You wrote:
We all possess an inborn moral sense. Agrote responded by alleging that you had misunderstood the question, and that he asks if something is wrong because god says it is wrong, or something else, e.g., that it causes suffering. He then asks:
Another way of putting it: when God said, "thou shalt not kill", did his command make it wrong to kill, or was it already wrong to kill?
Now, as i read this, Agrote has stated that you misunderstood his question, but then contradicts himself, when he asks that final question, which is answered in your earlier response that we possess an inborn moral sense, from which one can infer that you will say that killing is already wrong--which you subsequently do, but muddy the water further by writing:
The command was to not commit murder; and murder has always been wrong.
This was followed by Steve, who wrote:
But the Jews didnt know this until they got to the foot of Mount Siniai. It was only then that Moses revealed to them that murder theft and perjury were wrong. Until then they had been getting along quite well... To that, you responded:
Cain was exiled for his murder.
That was not a disclaimer--it was a direct response to Steve's claim that the Jews did not know that murder was wrong until ol' Mose went up the mountain, had his vision, and came back with his ten commandments song and dance.
Now, given the the original question, despite Agrote's quixotic decision to demur, and claim he had not asked what he subsequently asked, the question was whether morality is holy writ from god, or whether it is innate. When Steve alleged that it comes from holy writ, specifically the Mount Sinai scam, you retort that Cain was exiled for murder, as thought that answers the objection. So i pointed out that Cain was exiled by the god and not any people in the world he inhabited, and that therefore, a reference to Cain's punishment does not constitute evidence that a moral repugnance for murder is innate, as opposed to ordained by your god.
Quote:If you promote the idea that the bible reveals God to have set up his creations to fail, hence exhibiting a degree of sadism, then you really should consider explaining how this God was able to imbue in humans the qualities of love and justice he himself lacked.
Of course, you could just blow this off, but then I would wonder if all the money I have spent on coffee has been in vain.
You have not spent any coffee money on me, and i rather suspect that you'd have hyped yourself up on that drug to the same extent had you never known me.
If, as you claim, your god has imbued humans with the qualities of love and justice, then you only succeed in making your god look the more ridiculous. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that not all humans are loving and just. Therefore, your god must have made a slipshod job of imbuing love and justice in the human race. For a deity which you allege is omnipotent, that looks really silly.
Taken as a whole,
Genesis as the record of the actions of a father show your god to be seriously bizarre, and lacking the basic parenting skills which most of humanity considers to be requisite for being a good parent.
