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THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Welsh don't have a government. They've got an assembly, a bit like schools.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:06 am
bump
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:07 am
Bump
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:07 am
bump
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:11 am
@izzythepush,
http://i60.tinypic.com/bzfox.jpg

The current structure of the ministerial team is formed by Welsh Labour ... Welsh Government @ Wikipedia
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 08:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Where's our bloody government?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 11:55 am
@izzythepush,
I've just read that the city, where I'd been a couple of times in the 60's/70's (the fourth-largest city in Scotland) is 70+% 'yes' - no wonder that I'm a bit biased Wink
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 12:34 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

Don't you mean whisky?


Yes. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 12:53 pm

I believe Gordon Brown, ex-Yesterday's Man, fulfilled his destiny today as Britain's preeminent postwar politician, as the man who saved the United Kingdom.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 01:06 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
The blame game has begun, even before we know the result of Thursday's referendum. Even if the Scottish people vote against independence, the way the UK is run is going to change. So politicians of all hues are scrambling to get their excuses in first
.
Full report in The Independent: Scottish independence: The blame game begins in No camp even before the first vote is cast
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 01:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Spanish warn independent Scotland would get euro not pound

Spain's European Affairs Minister contradicts Alex Salmond by stating a separate Scotland would need to wait at least five years for EU membership and sign up to the single currency



An independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro, the Spanish government has warned in a major intervention 48 hours before the referendum that directly contradicts Alex Salmond’s claims.
Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, rejected the First Minister’s claims Scotland could negotiate membership “from within” the EU, saying it would have to apply from scratch and follow the usual accession process.
He told BBC’s Newsnight programme Jean-Claude Juncker, the new European Commission president, has hinted this would take five years and no new member state would be given an opt-out from the single currency.
Gianni Pitella, president of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, also warned that an independent Scotland would have no automatic rights to the UK's opt-outs when it has to apply a new member state.
The Italian politician also put doubt on the SNP’s 18-month timescale for entry, saying: "It will take years".

The intervention is significant as all 28 existing member states, including Spain, would have to reach unanimous agreement on the process a separate Scotland would have to follow and the terms on which it would join.
Mr Salmond used an interview on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend to repeat his claim that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU by negotiating entry between a Yes vote on Thursday and actual separation in March 2016.
He claims this fast-track process would be achieved by tweaking the EU treaties to include Scotland as a member but José Manuel Barroso, the former commission president, has warned it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for a separate Scotland to join the EU.


Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European Council, which consists of all the member states’ leaders, said he agreed with Mr Barroso.
The Spanish Prime Minister has also said Scotland would start life outside the EU, while Mr Juncker has said voters’ decision would be respected but it could not become a member merely by sending a letter.
Mr Mendez de Vigo said: “It is crystal clear that any partner member-state that leaves the member state is out of the European Union. If they want to apply again, they would have to follow the procedure of article 49 of the treaties.”
He said there were “more ifs than a poem by Kipling” about whether and on what terms Scotland would gain entry, emphasising this must be unanimously agreed by the member states and “it is a process that takes more or less five years”.
Mr Salmond has said Scotland would not be forced to use the euro as it would not meet the economic conditions but Mr Mendez de Vigo made clear it would be expected to sign up to it in principle and work towards its adoption.
“The euro is not just another policy of the union, there is an aim of all member states to share a common currency. We are now 19 member states that share the common currency with an exception, the United Kingdom has an opt-out granted back in 1995 to go out of the euro,” he said.
“But I don't see in the future for any member state to be granted that possibility, if any member-state if any candidate puts that on the table, I can tell you that all member states will look at it very carefully.”
In a statement, Mr Pitella said: "An independent Scotland would have no automatic right to the various special treatments that the UK has been granted over the last few decades, from the budget rebate to having no obligation to join the euro or participate in the Schengen area of travel without frontier controls. No new member has been accorded such special treatment.”
Douglas Alexander, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said: "This is yet another expert contradicting what Alex Salmond has said about the EU membership of a separate Scotland.
“It is clearer than ever that if we leave the UK we would need to reapply to join the EU. That would put at risk many of benefits Scottish families enjoy today, like our opt-outs on the euro and VAT on food and children’s clothing."
A Yes Scotland spokesman said: "There is no way that the EU won't want to keep oil-rich, fishing-rich, renewable energy-rich Scotland. And we will keep the pound, because joining the euro is entirely voluntary - as the example of Sweden shows. We have no intention of joining the euro, and don't even qualify for membership even if we did."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11099167/Spanish-warn-independent-Scotland-would-get-euro-not-pound.html
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 02:20 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Some say so, others different - both sites may be correct, since it isn't regulated.

But say what you want: the cloud-drift has predicted the result already (works well since Veleda's prominence during the Batavian rebellion of AD 69–70) ...

http://i62.tinypic.com/24xo29t.jpg
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 02:50 pm
@contrex,
You've made me laugh twice in two posts - twunt, and the 28% comment.

I'm still a no, though not a person who gets all the ramifications of this whole episode, however it goes. I can picture more messes with Yes, than with No. The whole thing makes me sad but I guess I see how it is happening.

Just this morning I was wondering what Ian Rankin thinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Rankin


As a california/new mexico american, my only scottish creds are that I've read a lot of Rankin's books, have read McTag for years, and that I once had a crush on a guy with lovely scots sounds in his voice (didn't work out).
Thursday may be quite a day.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 03:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"Some say so, others different - both sites may be correct, since it isn't regulated."

Who are those who say otherwise, Walt? I keep giving specific detail and names, and you keep returning my serve with "others".
I have tried lookimg for comment from other EU big hitters to see if there is a different view, but can't seem to find any.
Barosso, Van Rompuy, Spanish bigwig, Itaiian bigwig and others, all saying the same thing. That they will have no real choice but to take the awful euro, and that it will take a long time to get membership.

I would like to hear an authoritative EU voice say otherwise.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 04:05 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Just this morning I was wondering what Ian Rankin thinks.

All he has said, I believe, is that Rebus would vote "No" and Siobhan Clarke "Yes" and he himself is publicly staying "right in the middle".

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ian-rankin-on-scottish-independence/



ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 07:03 pm
@izzythepush,
And Quebec is part of Canada.

I do not think people have a right to vote in a country they have left. I understand that others disagree. My opinion is, you leave = you lose your right to vote.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 07:18 pm
@ehBeth,
The argument is that non resident Scots like Tag don't have a voice, but recent arrivals, Poles Lithuanians etc. do.

Personally I don't give a **** either way. The Westminster government has conceded so much that a No vote will make the rest of us considerably worse off. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 07:32 pm
@izzythepush,
I know what the argument is. I don't think non-residents should have a vote. I think new residents should vote.

It doesn't get much simpler to my mind.

You're a resident - you vote. You're not a resident - you don't vote.

I don't have any sympathy for the motherland/fatherland whiners.

I guess I'm not sentimental enough.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 07:33 pm
@contrex,
Thanks, I enjoyed reading that. Also, it was an introduction to Macleans for me.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2014 07:45 pm
@ehBeth,
I see your point, will have to mull it over. I've been for an ex pat/but still citizen having a vote. Had I moved to Italy, my plan was to go back and forth to the U.S., but I couldn't have afforded to do the back and forth (what the hell was I thinking?). Given I had moved there, I'd still want a vote in a US presidential election... maybe because I'm so old and long invested in US politics and society matters, all those pros and cons of a lifetime, a history of this country in my brain.

On the other hand, I never planned to be part of some ex pat colony, in either Mexico or Italy - I already know americans, am interested in other places. So maybe a residential vote in those places might have appealed to me. But, lets face it, I'd be essentially a stupid voter, at least at the beginning.
0 Replies
 
 

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