Bible vs. Science

@Francis,

Francis wrote:

Neo wrote:
The severity of the law was a necessity as it served as a ". . .tutor leading to Christ, . . ." (Galatians 3:24)
So, can we infer that without that law or with a more permissive law, Jesus would have less followers?

Were they obligated to follow Jesus, under some penalty?

The law was impossible for imperfect humans to follow.

When Jesus kept the law, it identified him as the Messiah.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
So, can we infer that without that law or with a more permissive law, Jesus would have less followers?

Yes.
And no. Although he might have mesmerised them. It's painting with dots. You need to stand back.

That'd be tricky, 1800 years or so before the birth of Franz Anton Mesmer. Razz

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The premise is wrong, because the Bible is only an inanimate object where science is the study of natural laws. The opposition between the two happens at the point where scientist preach religion and preacher teach science.

In general scientists (not all of course) tend to be closed hearted, and fundamentalists tend to be closed minded. A scientist can tell when a person is being closed minded, because they are unwilling to listen to reason and logic. But if a scientist is closed hearted they are unable to identify the spirit present. To the close hearted person things like beauty, love, peace, joy, ugliness, hatred, anxiousness, and sadness are meaningless.

Read Avi Rabinowitz's perspective at: http://pages.nyu.edu/~air1/scirelig.htm.

For those of us who enjoy challenging our hearts with love and our minds with logic Avi's perspective is refreshing.

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@Pronounce,

Refreshers are for stagnating environments I should have thought.

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@spendius,

I suppose, but that depends on what everyone wants. I can't imagine that topics are closed, because the question is open ended.

I tagged on my post to this forum, because I felt I could actually offer something unique to the discussion. I also thought that if a2k were ever to contain meaningful discussion that the forums needed to be updated.

Of course I'm open to the view of the community, and if it is the opinion of others to create new forums instead of using old forums I'll adjust to doing that.

(Did I understand your comment correctly?)

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@Pronounce,

It is difficult to be openhearted about a book full of half truths... Just because a scientist does not believe the dogma of the book does not mean they don't have a great heart or a beautifully awakened spirit.

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@Eorl,

I love Mesmer! Smile

hehe

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@RexRed,

The Bible describes people who can't hear spiritually from the Supreme being as being hard-hearted. The Bible goes on to further define that being as the one who created everything, who owns everything, is in nature truth, love, peace, justice, kindness, patience.

So a scientist in opposition to the Supreme being (which includes his nature listed above) can not be openhearted in the way I mean it, because to be so requires the person to be in agreement with the fullness of that being, and not just have a beautifully awakened spirit.

The Bible also describes that there are other spirits that are not in tune with the Creator. So it is very likely if a person has an awakened spirit, but it stands in contention with the nature of God that it is in fact an evil spirit.

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@Pronounce,

Quote:

To the close hearted person things like beauty, love, peace, joy, ugliness, hatred, anxiousness, and sadness are meaningless.

Quote:

The Bible describes people who can't hear spiritually from the Supreme being as being hard-hearted. The Bible goes on to further define that being as the one who created everything, who owns everything, is in nature truth, love, peace, justice, kindness, patience.

So a scientist in opposition to the Supreme being (which includes his nature listed above) can not be openhearted in the way I mean it, because to be so requires the person to be in agreement with the fullness of that being, and not just have a beautifully awakened spirit.

The Bible also describes that there are other spirits that are not in tune with the Creator. So it is very likely if a person has an awakened spirit, but it stands in contention with the nature of God that it is in fact an evil spirit.

So then, to the close hearted (in the sense that you're speaking of) person things like beauty, love, peace, joy, ugliness, hatred, anxiousness, and sadness aren't necessarily meaningless. After all, close hearted people are emotional beings too. It's that these things of the close hearted person are evil. There's an evil beauty, an evil love, an evil peace, etc.

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@Pronounce,

Yes and the bible also describes God's supposed racism of "chosen people" where a scientist (who is true to their discipline) loves all races equally... Now who is the one in need of their spirit being awakened? Who carries the false spirit?

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@Lash,

Lash, You must vacate common sense and logic in order to believe what the religious people (especially christians) believe. If god is perfect, and makes no errors/mistakes, then by logic we cannot blame the gay/lesbian for their homosexuality.

We also can't blame the deformed babies that are born with mental and/or physical handicaps; they are perfectly innocent. Who do we blame for that?

Since god doesn't make mistakes, why did those who wrote the bible error so badly on 1) age of the earth, 2) flat earth, and 3) world flood? Those writers forgot to mention dinosaurs, and that the planet earth is but one planet in our universe of many - that proves the age of this planet as some 4.5 billions years old. The age of homo sapiens is much younger - but older than Adam and Eve.

On top of all those errors and omissions, our history is replete with the many sins of the religious and the man-made churches. If the bible is suppose to teach morals, it failed miserably through the past two thousand years.

The only lesson I see is that religious beliefs are in the mind of the beholder, but does not translate into good deeds or actions.

When people say "god bless you," exactly what is that supposed to mean?
That your life will be without misery, pain, or tragedy?

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@cicerone imposter,

What's the alternative ci? We would need one. Explain your policies. You can't just keep knocking everything down. Any tosspot can do that.

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@spendius,

The alternative is very simple; believe in yourself; gods do not exist.

He will not help you if you get seriously sick and die, or die from other natural disasters like floods, volcanoes, tsunamis, landslides, and fire. They do not discriminate between the believers and nonbelievers; no matter how much you pray.

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@cicerone imposter,

Babies do that. Isn't the whole point of education, in the widest sense, to ameliorate the condition.

Where do the concepts of thought come from?

Your signature quote from Einstein obviously had people like you in mind.

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@cicerone imposter,

Is the purpose of God to

Quote:

help you if you get seriously sick and die, or die from other natural disasters like floods, volcanoes, tsunamis, landslides, and fire.

?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

Re: cicerone imposter (Post 4306010)
Is the purpose of God to
Quote:
help you if you get seriously sick and die, or die from other natural disasters like floods, volcanoes, tsunamis, landslides, and fire. ?

Excuse my butting in: One would think that the reason people cry out "God help us!" in some of the disasters listed above is that they believe they can elicit aid from the supernatural. No? Whether you think that God's purpose is something else (That will teach you, you little human, and here's some more suffering to teach you some more.) is immaterial to the person crying out for aid.

God's a busy guy, as Carl Sandberg has pointed out, looking over this universe and several unseen others, but He seems to always have the time to help the home team score that winning home run while missing out on the newly widowed mother and her four children drowning in the Pakistani floods.
Yeah, yeah, I know, life's a mystery.....
Joe(and so are the motives of your unjust God)Nation

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Do you consider that people who do not believe in God and have no faith generally call out to this same God in times of peril and disaster?

What about those who actually have a belief in God and do not heed what is presented to them? Let me give you an example.

There is a terrible storm and flood. People are trying to save themselves. A man climbs onto the roof of his house for safety. A man in a rowboat comes along and tells him to climb aboard and he will take him to safety. The man on the roof says, "No, no. My God will save me."

The water continues to rise and another man in a motorboat comes along and tells the man to get in. The man on the roof says, No, no. My God will save me."

Things turn worse and a helicopter flys over and a rescuer climbs down a rope and tells the man to grab hold. The man on the roof says, No, no. My God will save me."

Eventually, the man drowns. He is confronted by God and the man says, "I have believed in you all my life and had faith in you. Why did you let me drown?"

God responds, " I sent you a rowboat, I sent you a motorboat, I sent you a helicopter.

Oh, and God has no interest in baseball.

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Heh, Intrepid, I'm old enough to have heard that story many, many times. I alway enjoy it. Yes.

Quote:

Oh, and God has no interest in baseball.

I must reluctantly report that you are completely wrong about god and baseball.

If you had said such a thing about god and football you would be, in most of areas of the USA, toppling over the edge of blasphemy.

The same goes, --okay not as deeply as with football--, with other sports. I have been at Track and Field Events where the winner of the 200 yard dash professed that she could not have won "without the help of Jesus, My Lord and Savior." (The other runners apparently participated unaided by either wind or spirit.)

Not only is God completely involved in who wins and loses multitudinous sports contests (ask the players, the coaches and their fans, they will tell you flat out that God is on their side.)(except when he is not.)

And, if what I hear is true, there is not an alcoholic on the planet who has not freed himself without surrendering his will to the Will of __________ (you fill in the blank.)

That is one of the most interesting things about what believers believe. They believe that their God can violate His own rules of Physics: make the ball sail over the fence, make the pigskin stick to the outstretched palm of the corner-back. That He can fulfill the hopes of half of the people watching while dashing those of the other half.

Joe(and yet still expect our love.)Nation

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@Joe Nation,

If that was all true, God would have no problem getting season tickets and a private box. Oh, yeah, and free beer.

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@Joe Nation,

Quote:

. That He can fulfill the hopes of half of the people watching while dashing those of the other half.

Which, I suppose, is the fundamental explanation for religious wars. The evolution of the satisfaction of the most hopes being the proof that the God of the most satisfied side is the one true God when applied to the destiny of cultures. The sports metaphor being neutral to God within any specific culture and thus that culture's God is content to leave things to fall out as they will as one does when one sends a paper aeroplane out of the window.

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