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Norway’s Dark Secret, The Lebensborn, ABBA

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 05:09 am
Kratos wrote:
It doesn't rule out that he could still be viewed as a good president, but with some "baggage".


You described Roosevelt as being perceived by the nation in the squalid epithet which we both recall. I responded that the casual racism of the nation was likely not that virulent. I've given my reasons--i now suspect you of arguing for argument's sake. If you want to do this, why not stop trashing this thread, and start one of you own. It would have the additional advantage of making it easier to ignore your obsession.

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what the relevence is here. How does the Old South's refusal to vote for Republicans relate to them not being especially more racist than the rest of the country?


I made no such claim. What it does demonstrate is that the Wikipedia article's claim, and any claim, advanced on the contention that a racist reaction cost Roosevelt the votes of the Old South cannot be more than a notional contention. The Old South didn't vote for Republicans, period, until Eisenhower, didn't vote for any Republican in significant numbers until Nixon, and didn't abandon the Democratic Party until Reagan. So i reject the contention, and have explained why.

********************************************

Here, let's make this easy for your wounded vanity--you're right and i'm wrong. You are asolutely right, and i don't even have the slightest degree of justification for my remarks.

Happy now?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 07:44 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'd never admitted it - only got my coming out with some ABBA-revival band Embarrassed
Naughty Wally!

I was in a duo with a girl for about 5 years, so I had time to mess with the vocal harmonies / counterpoint, it's a bit of work pull off with just two.

ABBA used more interesting chords changes than some more guitar oriented pop bands because of the keyboard orientation. But still, they had a kind of Euro-trashy-disco-slick-pop-vibe which kind'a grated at times given that I like Ozzy et al too.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 11:01 pm
Exactly that's what I wasn't keen on them during their active time .... their "Euro-trashy-disco-slick-pop-vibe" ...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 12:30 am
From today's Guardian:

Quote:
Norway's Aryan children go to court over years of prejudice

Associated Press in Strasbourg
Thursday March 8, 2007
The Guardian


They claim they were locked up in mental homes and denied education, the victims of a monstrous Nazi scheme and decades of public prejudice.
Now a group of Norwegian "war children", born as part of a German plan to create a genetically pure race, are taking their case to the European court of human rights, demanding compensation and recognition of their suffering from the government in Oslo.

Up to 12,000 children with a Norwegian mother and a German father were born in Norway during the second world war under the Lebensborn - Fountain of Life - scheme, first introduced by SS chief Heinrich Himmler in 1935 to propagate Aryan children. Outside Germany, Norway was the jewel of the programme.

A group of 154 Norwegians, along with four Swedes and a German, have turned to the European court of human rights, arguing that the Norwegian government's inaction to protect them violated their civil liberties. "We want it to be recognised that the government of Norway violated the rights of these people, and we are asking for financial damages," said Randi Hagen Spydevold, a lawyer for the group.
Norwegian courts have ruled that the government cannot be held responsible for failing to sufficiently protect the Lebensborn children before 1953, when Norway signed the European convention on human rights. But the group argues that ill-treatment continued long afterwards. Discrimination included public denouncement by doctors and clergy who claimed they were mentally and genetically defective and potential Nazi sympathisers. Many also had problems finding work.

One claimant, Paul Hansen, said he was locked up in a psychiatric institution until 1965. Another, Karl Otto Zinken, was sent to a school for children with learning difficulties, where he said he was raped by two men. "The big problem is that the rights violations started before 1953 but continued long after. Research has been done showing what they had been exposed to, and we say the Norwegian government was to blame," Mr Spydevold said.

In 2002, the Norwegian parliament ordered the state to make amends, and the government offered to pay the children up to 200,000 kroner (now £16,700) each, depending on how much suffering the victims could document. But the group is demanding £34,000 per person, and up to four times as much for those who suffered the most.

The European court will hear the group's arguments today before deciding whether the case is admissible. A decision could take several months.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 01:29 am
How can a European court make a binding and perhaps superceding decision to the Norwegian courts? Simply because of Norway signing the European convention on human rights?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 01:45 am
The European Court of Human Rights is charged with supervising the enforcement of the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (1950; commonly known as the European Convention on Human Rights), which was drawn up by the Council of Europe. The convention obligates signatories to guarantee various civil and political freedoms, including the freedom of expression and religion and the right to a fair trial.
The convention obligates signatories to guarantee various civil and political freedoms, including the freedom of expression and religion and the right to a fair trial. It is headquartered in Strasbourg, France.

Individuals who believe their human rights have been violated and who are unable to remedy their claim through their national legal system may petition the ECHR to hear the case and render a verdict. The court, which also can hear cases brought by states, may award financial compensation, and its decisions often require changes in national law. Consisting of more than 40 judges elected for renewable six-year terms, the ECHR normally works in seven-judge chambers. Judges do not represent their countries, and there is no limit to the number of judges a single country may contribute. The court is also divided into four sections, the judges of which represent a balance of gender and geography and take account for the various legal systems. A Grand Chamber of 17 judges is sometimes used in cases where the seven-judge panel determines that a serious issue of interpretation is involved or that the decision of the panel might contravene existing case law.

In order to handle the growing number of cases more efficiently, a different court, bearing the same name, was established in 1998. It was merged with the European Commission of Human Rights, which was established in 1954, and enabled to hear individual cases without the prior assent of the individual's national government. The court's decisions are binding on all signatories. (from Britannica.com)


Free info about the European Court of Human Rights at wikipedia.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 11:32 pm
Interesting, thanks!
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Holly0924
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 07:33 am
@timberlandko,
Frida as a child had blonde hair
but she dies her hair a lot of different colors just like Agnetha keeps dying it blonde
Frida's eyes are blue/green not green
and her compexion is very fair only that like is well know she tanned a lot
and actually Frida's features are more refined than those of Agnetha's.
Also, her father was a soldier (not of the SS) who had an afair with Frida's mother. Frida is a war baby not a lebensborn baby.
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smartass doll
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 07:41 am
I read the article, and the comments with great interest. However, one thing still puzzles me: apart from all the politically correct comments,... does any of you really believe in the master race theory, i.e. blue-eyed blond dudes were just born lucky? Is the physical appearance (fair, brunette, or whatever) the essential substance to a human being? What about the soul? Does it not matter at all? (and no, I am not black, I am fair-skinned myself, just in case you might be wondering). I have noticed that no matter what people say loudly to others is often not what they secretly think, as skin colour is still an important aspect of a person's identity, since those pretty afro-american ladies (mostly celebrities) shamefully bleach their gorgeous glowing skins, to look whiter and prouder????!!!! They certainly don't practice what they preach, and most people surely don't. Race is still a sensitive matter, when most cultures disagree on the terminology, of "black", "coloured" or "non-white", etc the list goes on, there is always some disagreeable connotation behind those words, according to the "brightest of minds". To me, they just can't get rid of the ghosts, being possessed by this superior/inferior race obssession.
The world is such a beautiful place and its habitants are so amazing, because it's all so diverse, and colourful, and yet so similar. How boring would it be if all looked the same, spoke the same language, and behaved the same way. It's all heading that way I know, with the globalisation and all, but it'd be nice to slow down a little and enjoy all the diversity and the fun of it, while we still have it, it will soon disappear, and then it's welcome to the clone-like age. Not looking forward to it, not at all.
There's only one thing I would want to change: some narrow-minded people's brains, so that they could wake up and see, what they are missing, being too busy generating despicable theories, and negative feelings, that eat them up until they die as miserable notorious little people. Who would want to be remembered in history for those mind-poisonous (rather "thick") theories? What a shame!
0 Replies
 
rightorwrong
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 07:33 am
@Lash,
Just to clarify, the Lebensborn offspring were not necessarily rapes at all.
Germany was winning the war and many of these women were hedging their bets that they would be in the preferred class when the Nazi's won the war. Their offspring with Nazi officers promised them an elevated status.
When the Nazi's lost, these women were scorned, often heads shaved and shamed. Reality isn't so cut and dry.
0 Replies
 
 

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