What should be done about illegal immigration?

Tags: Politics, Immigration, Racism, White Supremacy, Bigotry
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cicerone imposter wrote:

Are you a parrot? You offered nothing except repeating my question.

I was merely agreeing with you, and was amazed that such things could be happening, ci, as you apparently do, and so I too wonder how long this could be going on, and where? After all, this could in fact be a serious problem.

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@ebrown p,

Quote:

64% of legal immigrants say "The anti-immigrant sentiment in the United States is fueled by racism against immigrants from Latin America and Asia."

And at one point 100% of the people thought the sun revolved around the earth.
Whats your point?
The "anti-immigrant sentiment" is for the most part fueled by people that want the law enforced.
And you once again didnt acknowledge that the sentiment is anti-ILLEGAL immigration.
Why do you continue to gloss over that little nugget?

Quote:

3. Pro-enforcement politicians are losing elections. Politicians that are solidly in favor of a path to citizenship (including our popular president) are gaining wide public support from immigrants and non-immigrants alike.

And isnt part of that "path to citizenship" obeying the law?
Doesnt it also include the fact that those here ILLEGALLY must pay fines, return home, and enter the country legally?

Why do you continue to lump those of us that oppose ILLEGAL immigration with those that oppose any immigration?

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@mysteryman,

You are missing the points, raised by Foxfyre, to which I was responding.

1. Foxfyre made the implication (as part of her argument that we should not give amnesty to 'illegal' immigrants) that legal immigrants favored harsh enforcement and opposed amnesty

I was just pointing out that Foxfyre is incorrect on this point.

2. I thought the term "path to citizenship" was obvious. It means the plan to provide people here illegally now the opportunity to become citizens if they haven't committed a serious crime, pay taxes and pay a fine. This is a fairly common part of most compromise proposals and is a position held by many politicians including president Obama.

My only point is that the enforcement-only position has not proven to be a political winner. This is strong evidence that the compromise immigration plan-- enforcement plus a path to citizenship, has broad support among American voters.

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@ebrown p,

I can only go by the opinions of those I know who have become naturalized citizens. I can find no poll directed to legal immigrants only to discern what THEIR opinion about enforcement of the immigration laws might be. I daresay you can't either so my opinion is as good as yours on that.

Overall, however, the tide appears to be turning in favor of stricter enforcement and, I am going to guess, in the face of the economic downturn, probably fewer now support any kind of amnesty.

Quote:

Rasmussen Poll Shows Americans Favor Stricter Local Immigration Enforcement
Thursday, March 26, 2009, 11:00 AM

A Rasmussen Poll conducted in mid-March reveals that the majority of Americans do favor stricter enforcement of the nation's immigration laws. This comes after news that Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano will review the current worksite enforcement program.

The poll shows that 67% of Americans would favor local police conducting surprise raids where immigrants congregate daily to find work. Only 24% disagree with the practice.

Results also reveal that 68% of Americans favor stricter sanctions against companies that hire undocumented workers. Only 22% oppose stricter sanctions.

More information on these polls can be found at Rasmussen Reports

Other polls conducted by Rasmussen show that 79% of voters think the United States should beef up its military presence on the Mexican border.
73% of voters think police should automatically check a person's immigration status during traffic violations.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/march-26-2009/rasmussen-poll-shows-american-favor-stircter-local-immigration-enforcement.html

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I understand N Korea has strict immigration laws. They convict foreigners who "wet-back" their way in their nation.

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@Foxfyre,

The ability of NumbersUSA to cherry pick data is interesting...

I have linked to several polls which say that about two thirds of Americans support the compromise plan which includes a path to citizenship for people here illegally now in addition to stronger enforcement. This is exactly the compromise position that I am advocating.

This NumbersUSA propaganda piece doesn't refute this fact.

I checked the original Rasmussen report. It not clear whether they forgot to ask the question... or for some strange reason they didn't report these particular results.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

The ability of NumbersUSA to cherry pick data is interesting...

I have linked to several polls which say that about two thirds of Americans support the compromise plan which includes a path to citizenship for people here illegally now in addition to stronger enforcement. This is exactly the compromise position that I am advocating.

This NumbersUSA propaganda piece doesn't refute this fact.

I checked the original Rasmussen report. It not clear whether they forgot to ask the question... or for some strange reason they didn't report these particular results.

It will only encourage future law breaking. Instead create such a disincentive for employers to hire illegals that they (the illegals) will simply leave. The US has the right to control its borders, and the ones who deserve to be here are the ones who apply legally.

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@Brandon9000,

That's your opinion Brandon (and I think we have argued the point enough already). Of course the US has the right to control its borders. The US also has the right to provide a path to citizenship for people here illegally now. And that is the solution that many politicians and most Americans support.

I wasn't saying you don't have the right to your opinion. I was just pointing out that roughly two thirds of us American citizens disagree with you.

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@ebrown p,

Quote:

The US has the right to control its borders, and the ones who deserve to be here are the ones who apply legally.

What part of that statement do 2/3 of Americans disagree with?

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@mysteryman,

Two thirds of Americans (give or take) support the compromise position that includes a path to citizenship for people here illegally now along with increased border security.

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@ebrown p,

And how is that different then what Brandon said?

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@ebrown p,

Perhaps you were cherrypicking the polls. Regarding polls, they may merely represent the tyranny of the majority.

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@Advocate,

Well, show me a single poll (published by someone who doesn't think Judge Sotomayor is a racist) that says that the majority of Americans don't support a path to citizenship combined with increased border security.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Two thirds of Americans (give or take) support the compromise position that includes a path to citizenship for people here illegally now along with increased border security.

I'm not sure what poll you're taling about. Just Googling around for a minute, I find something quite different:

"Zogby Poll: Obama Election No Mandate for Illegal Alien Amnesty" at

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6228

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@Brandon9000,

Quote:

The poll conducted by Zogby International on behalf of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

LOL

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

Let's try a polling firm that is not financed by an anti-immigrant hate group.

Quote:

The March 2-4, 2007, USA Today/Gallup Poll updated a question asked several times last year that measured Americans' preferences for the handling of illegal immigrants already in the country:

Which comes closest to your view about what government policy should be toward illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States? Should the government -- [ROTATED: deport all illegal immigrants back to their home country, allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States in order to work, but only for a limited amount of time, or allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S. citizens, but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time]?

Given these three options, the majority of Americans, 59%, support the government allowing illegal immigrants to remain in this country and eventually become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements. Fifteen percent of Americans support allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the country to work for a limited period of time. About one in four Americans, 24%, say all illegal immigrants should be deported back to their home countries.

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A recent CBS/NYT poll shows that only 44 % of the public believes that illegals should be allowed to stay and apply for citizenship.

http://pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

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@Advocate,

Yes, and as jobs continue to erode and the economy founders, I think you'll see less and less support for illegal immigration.

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@Advocate,

Advocate, the same link you offer has the following polls. Note that the first one I include was taken during the recession (which tends to discredit Foxfyre's silly conserative fantasy).

Quote:

"Would you support or oppose a program giving illegal immigrants now living in the United States the right to live here legally if they pay a fine and meet other requirements?"

4/21-24/09
61% Support
35% Oppose
3% Unsure

Quote:

"One proposal that has been discussed in Congress would allow illegal immigrants who have been living and working in the United States for a number of years, and who do not have a criminal record, to start on a path to citizenship by registering that they are in the country, paying a fine, getting fingerprinted, and learning English, among other requirements. Do you support or oppose this, or haven't you heard enough about it to say?"

Support Oppose Unsure
% % %

11/30 - 12/3/07
60% support
15% oppose
25% unsure

And this one is quite interesting given that in addition to the 30% of Americans liked the McCain-Kennedy bill, there were another 15% of Americans thought we should help illegal immigrants even more?

This was compared to on 28% of Americans who thought the McCain Kennedy bill went to far in helping illegal immigrants.

Quote:

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. June 22-24, 2007. N=1,029 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"As you may know, the U.S. Senate has been considering a bill to change the way the government handles the issue of illegal immigration. Based on what you have read or heard about all the proposals in the Senate immigration bill, do you favor or oppose that bill?" If oppose: "Do you oppose the Senate immigration bill MOSTLY because you think it goes too far toward helping illegal immigrants, or MOSTLY because it does not go far enough toward helping illegal immigrants?"

6/22-24/07

30% Favor
28% Oppose (goes too far toward helping illegal immigrants)
15% Oppose (doesn't go far enough toward helping illegal immigrants)
4% Oppose (no reason)
22% Unsure

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For a site that does not cherry pick its polls, but simply reports results from pretty much every reputable pollster as it comes in, check out pollingreport.com. Here are their pages on immigration:

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration2.htm

My impression is that people's responses are all over the place, depending on how you ask the question. That makes it simple for cherry pickers on either side to find a poll supporting their views.

EDIT: I just noticed Advocate already linked to the first page. And Advocate is right: On the specific claim ebrown is making -- that two thirds of all Americans support a path to citizenship for immigrants who currently live here illegally -- the available data contradicts him.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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