View Profile nimh
 
  5  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 09:42 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:

He proposed a 3-state solution to Iraq while the hyper-partisans on both sides of the aisle just bickered about should or shouldn't have.

I like Biden, I think - dont know all that much about him even after seeing a bunch of the debates, but he seems OK. He seems to be a real mensch, judging on various stories and anecdotes I've seen. He seems well respected across much of the Senate as a hard-working, thorough, nose-to-the-grindstone kind of Senator. And he appears to be good at the "attack dog" role traditionally reserved for the Veep candidate, and Lord knows Obama needs one.

His voting record appears to be a mixed bag (he voted for that godawful bankruptcy bill, but he's from Delaware, the banking center of the country, so that may be an extenuating circumstance), but in any case, it wont be him setting the policy.

He voted for the same Congressional authorisation for the Iraq war that Hillary was pilloried for, which is bad; but on the other hand I do kind of like it that he remains a strong voice for robust internationalism in spite of the Iraq fiasco, strongly arguing intervention in Darfur for example. That's reassuring now that many Dems seem to have come to associate any American intervention with Bush's follies and in response default to isolationism (see Georgia).

But this thing you're pointing out here is exactly the one thing that I'm most frowning about. Biden's plan to just cut Iraq in three parts, and accord the Sunnis and Shiites each their own state, was madness, absolute and utter madness. Outside the Sunni Triangle and the SHi'ite south they live right through one another across the country, and that includes Bagdad, split into Sunni, Shi 'ite and a few remaining mixed neighbourhoods. What in heavens name would splitting the country up have involved? Absolute recklessness. And he stubbornly kept pushing the idea too.
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 09:45 am
Funny, a Conservative blowhard I know claims McCain is winning on "intangibles" too. It is like sports. You pick your favorite and the advantage you feel in your gut are the "intangibles."
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 09:48 am
Maybe so, maybe so. I think that Obama's intangibles are a lot easier to prove then McCain's, though -

http://backinasecond.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/1-mccain_bush_hug1.jpg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 09:56 am
As usual, Bill provides us with proof of his idiocy. He supports McCain, who was in the bottom one percent in his class at the academy, is showing signs of senility, or, perhaps, just stupidity. He thought that Iraq shared a border with Afghanistan, and didn't know that Czechoslovakia has not existed for a decade. He admits boredom with economics and professed an ignorance relative to the computer. But, this is Bill's choice for the presidency.
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:02 am
McCain is senile with a temper; a bad combination for the man who has his finger on the nuke botton.
0 Replies
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:09 am
Advocate. Oh my christ. Bill was talking about Joe Biden in his last post, not John McCain. Bill is an Obama supporter.

You should really apologize now and head this thing off at the pass

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:30 am
Hi Nimh,

I wanted to add that I agree with this poster from Openleft -

Quote:
Obama-McCain Polls
by: tremayne
Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:19

There's a new poll by CNN showing a 47-47 tie between Barack Obama and John McCain. A month ago there was that odd USA Today/Gallup poll showing McCain with a 4-point lead. As Democrats we naturally worry that, well, maybe Obama will join Al Gore and John Kerry in the ranks of "almost" Presidents. So the refrain, Obama please don't suck (catchy tune).

But here's the big picture on the Obama-McCain polling. Pollster.com lists 112 polls between the two since Obama captured the Democratic nomination in early June. It breaks down like this:

Obama ahead: 101

McCain ahead: 6

Ties: 5

Now you might think all those polls showing McCain ahead or tied are very recent but you'd be wrong. The rare non-leading Obama polls go back all the way to mid-June when an ABC poll showed McCain leading by 1 and a Gallup poll later that month showed a tie. There were several in July like that and a few in August. Folks, when a 101 out of 112 polls show you with a lead, even a narrow "within the margin of error" type lead, you are ahead.


http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7715

Cycloptichorn
View Profile Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:57 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080825/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_pelosi;_ylt=AvVMUilhtO2mtzJ7RoYUi5PCw5R4
Pelosi admits to in-fighting...
Women---the powerhouse constituency of the Dem party...ain't feelin him.
View Profile dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:00 pm
Thanks Bill and Soz.

Sounds kind of interesting.

View Profile Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:06 pm
30% of Hillary supporters refusing to back O. Q: Is it POSSIBLE for her to take the nomination from him. Lots of weird wrangling....Interesting article.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12782.html
0 Replies
 
View Profile dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:11 pm
Oh, and thanks Nimh as well.
0 Replies
 
View Profile roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:18 pm
nimh wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
His voting record appears to be a mixed bag (he voted for that godawful bankruptcy bill, but he's from Delaware, the banking center of the country, so that may be an extenuating circumstance), but in any case, it wont be him setting the policy.


Alright, I admit to some very selective cherry picking, but are you sure you would vote for a second in command, so to speak, because he won't be setting policy?
0 Replies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:25 pm
The unfortunate truth... from The Onion Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viVAAy_qkx0
0 Replies
 
View Profile Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:32 pm
I remember the extraordinary tension when Kennedy attempted to take the nomination from incumbent Carter....Now, that was politics!!
0 Replies
 
View Profile okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:06 pm
nimh wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:

He proposed a 3-state solution to Iraq while the hyper-partisans on both sides of the aisle just bickered about should or shouldn't have.


His voting record appears to be a mixed bag (he voted for that godawful bankruptcy bill, but he's from Delaware, the banking center of the country, so that may be an extenuating circumstance), but in any case, it wont be him setting the policy.

And I don't suppose that bankruptcy bill had an "extenuating circumstance" relative to Biden's son Hunter's job?
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:22 pm
Do you always get your talking points from Rush like this, Okie?

Seriously. I think the fact that MBNA and the other CC companies were based in DE had a lot more to do with it, then the fact that his son worked as a consultant for them.

But go ahead and push on this string as much as you can, and see how far it gets you. Mkay?

Cycloptichorn
View Profile nimh
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:24 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I wanted to add that I agree with this poster from Openleft -

Quote:
But here's the big picture on the Obama-McCain polling. Pollster.com lists 112 polls between the two since Obama captured the Democratic nomination in early June.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7715

I was looking at the big picture. That's why I dismissed your arguments about what might all be wrong about this one poll, and referred to how the sites -- like pollster.com, yes -- that tabulate and process all poll results showed: a) the race having become significantly tighter; and b) the race now being basically a dead heat.

No further conclusions from that -- doesnt mean that, woe is us it's all hopeless; it just means what it says. That the race has tightened and is now very much a horse race.

Then, once you've observed that, you can still argue about various respective "intangibles" that one camp and the other may claim for their side. But noting that the polls are showing a neck-and-neck race right now, not just the one offbeat poll but the average and trend of 'em -- and that they've tightened considerably over the past month -- that shouldnt be controversial. A single look at pollster.com's graph or fivethirtyeight.com's "super tracker" suffices. *shrug*


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ov-pT1x-W8Y/SLJwY6AXu6I/AAAAAAAACSs/2JUQL1R6WlU/S1600-R/0825_super.PNG
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:28 pm
nimh wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
But this thing you're pointing out here is exactly the one thing that I'm most frowning about. Biden's plan to just cut Iraq in three parts, and accord the Sunnis and Shiites each their own state, was madness, absolute and utter madness. Outside the Sunni Triangle and the SHi'ite south they live right through one another across the country, and that includes Bagdad, split into Sunni, Shi 'ite and a few remaining mixed neighbourhoods. What in heavens name would splitting the country up have involved? Absolute recklessness. And he stubbornly kept pushing the idea too.
Perhaps I wasn't clear here. I don't believe a 3-state solution to be a good idea, never thought it was tenable. I used it as an example to show the man
  • Has enough brains to think for himself.
  • Has enough courage to go his own way.
  • Isn't merely a partisan hack, towing the party line.


These are qualities I look for and admire in a leader.
View Profile okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:28 pm
Nice graph, nimh, and what do you think, my contention has been that Obama began going negative because he saw himself slipping. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done it. Obama going negative, and add to it the attack dog, Biden, is a bad sign for what is truly going on in the Obama camp. Troubles, and he thinks going negative might reverse the trend. I don't think it will work, and most especially it won't work on McCain. McCain seems to be sort of immune to it, more than other candidates.
0 Replies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:31 pm
Advocate wrote:

As usual, Bill provides us with proof of his idiocy. He supports McCain, who was in the bottom one percent in his class at the academy, is showing signs of senility, or, perhaps, just stupidity. He thought that Iraq shared a border with Afghanistan, and didn't know that Czechoslovakia has not existed for a decade. He admits boredom with economics and professed an ignorance relative to the computer. But, this is Bill's choice for the presidency.
Laughing The sheer consistency with which you make a fool of yourself by sticking your feet in your mouth never ceases to amaze me. Laughing
Drunk
0 Replies
 
 

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