Why does God permit suffering?

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@Treya,

Hi Treya.

Wazzup?

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

God does not permit suffering. God permits free will and people create their own suffering.

Yes, but that was not God's purpose. The permission is temporary.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Do you mean all those tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, fires, volcanoes, and earthquakes are from man's free will? Or is that the wrath of god? LOL

Sorry to say that some preachers have suggested such.

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Hi Treya.

Wazzup?

Hey neo!

Not much going on here. How are you doing?

1 Reply

@Lightwizard,

Lightwizard wrote:

Free will has become the handy religious excuse for the ills of the world.

Right on!

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank would call you an agnostic. To admit you don't know is rational enough.

Oh... Frank's called me a lot of things! LOL Agnostic was not one of them. Maybe I qualify now though! Very Happy

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@real life,

Quote:

Why do you assume that God permits suffering? Just because something 'is', does that mean God permitted it?

With great power comes great responsibility. In the case of God, His power is infinite, as is his knowledge. Therefore, his responsibility is infinite as well. HE must take responsibility for EVERYTHING that happens everywhere in the universe. Unlike human beings, God can claim neither ignorance nor inability to affect any outcome.
Because God's power and knowledge are infinite, nothing can happen anywhere in the universe unless HE knows about it, and allows it to happen. If anything happens without God knowing about it or allowing it, then God's power is limited. You can't have it both ways, no matter how fancily you dance around it.
Incidentally, I find it rather odd that God, who is a being of infinite power, nevertheless passes off responsibility for every bad thing in the universe onto his flawed creations, while at the same time taking no responsibility for the flaws he built into them.
I also find it rather odd that an infinite being could be injured, offended or inconvenienced in the slightest degree by any action of an infinitely inferior being.

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@rydinearth,

rydinearth said:

Quote:

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that God, who is a being of infinite power, nevertheless passes off responsibility for every bad thing in the universe onto his flawed creations, while at the same time taking no responsibility for the flaws he built into them.
I also find it rather odd that an infinite being could be injured, offended or inconvenienced in the slightest degree by any action of an infinitely inferior being.

And you know this is true? How?

2 Replies

@neologist,

Justice delayed, is justice denied.
William Gladstone
British politician (1809 - 1898)

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@aidan,

Quote:

rydinearth said:
Quote:

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that God, who is a being of infinite power, nevertheless passes off responsibility for every bad thing in the universe onto his flawed creations, while at the same time taking no responsibility for the flaws he built into them.
I also find it rather odd that an infinite being could be injured, offended or inconvenienced in the slightest degree by any action of an infinitely inferior being.

GW Bush came to mind - almost immediately.

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@aidan,

Quote:

And you know this is true? How?

This is just the traditional view of God. Show me any religion where God admits responsibility for anything; Show me a God who says, "I regret that I have created a flawed being. I devote myself eternally to correcting my mistake." Nope. Instead (to take most Abrahamic religions as an example) God says, "I created them perfectly. It's their own fault they're flawed. " He never explains how a thing can be created perfect and yet have within it the seeds of imperfection. But one thing is clear. Whatever is wrong with us, he's not taking the slightest responsibility for it. Instead he's placing the blame squarely upon us. It's rather like creating a 2 legged stool and blaming it for not standing up.

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@rydinearth,

I don't take a traditional view of God - in that I don't place expectations of human behavior or emotion on what I'd call God.

It's confusing for sure - in some ways the systems of the world in which we live purvey thoughts (to me at least) of perfection. In others-especially when it comes to humanity - it's rife with imperfection.

I don't know what to make of it - do you?
I mean I see evidence of God or an awesome and inspiring designer, creator, mastermind, masterpiece maker (or whatever you want to call that which informs nature) all around me.
But I also see evidence of the most barren, empty and forsaken lack of purposefulness- mostly when it comes to human beings-yes.

1 Reply

@aidan,

That's what christians call "free will." It's the answer for "everything." There are too many contradictions about "free will" such as babies born with two heads, stuck together at the head, and some born with both sex organs. People are born with homosexual urges, and god says it's a sin. Go figure.

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@cicerone imposter,

People have been asking this question for ever. How can an omnipotent omniscient ever present and all merciful God permit such suffering in the midst of his creation? Well perhaps he's not omni this and omni that. Perhaps he's not interested. Perhaps he's been struggling with a sand iron on the 17th for the last 2 billion years and hasn't been paying any attention to evolution on earth. Or perhaps he's just a figment of your imagination.

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@cicerone imposter,

I said:

Quote:

But I also see evidence of the most barren, empty and forsaken lack of purposefulness- mostly when it comes to human beings-yes.

You said:

Quote:

That's what christians call "free will." It's the answer for "everything."

I wouldn't call that free will - I would call that the human condition (for some people - others manage to be fulfilled and purposeful).
I don't even think it's especially universal (or that it can be applied to everyone), so to me, it defies any sort of universal label.

Quote:

There are too many contradictions about "free will" such as babies born with two heads, stuck together at the head, and some born with both sex organs.
People are born with homosexual urges, and god says it's a sin. Go figure.

I haven't heard god say anything - that hasn't been filtered through and almost certainly twisted by humanity.
That's why I can't figure any of this with certainty - and I wonder how others can.

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@aidan,

I don't think anybody can say any of it for certainty. We can only believe what we believe because we want to believe it. It some don't choose to belief then that is their perogative. Some of us choose to belief and that does not make either side of the coin any more right or wrong than the other.

Some look at God in earthly terms that they understand and do not look or want to look at the spiritual things.

0 Replies

Quote:

Why does God permit suffering?

God schmod.

There is no god.

It's a joke. But not a good joke. And certainly not a funny one.

1 Reply

@McTag,

You have absolute evidence of this?

1 Reply

@aidan,

You used the wrong sentence from your earlier post in responding to what I wrote. You wrote:

Quote:

I don't take a traditional view of God - in that I don't place expectations of human behavior or emotion on what I'd call God.

I said,

Quote:

That's what christians call "free will." It's the answer for "everything."

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Oh, sorry. Yes, but I still think that human behavior or emotion and its expression is part of the human condition and actually too variable and individual to paste with a universal label such as free will - although many people do act very willfully - very many others are restrained and repressed by various cultural and social expectations- some of which have to do with christianity and certainly others that have nothing to do with christianity at all.

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Why does God permit suffering?

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