Oh don't you ever cheat me.
Or rob, or slight or hur me.
'Cause if ya do i will torment ya
An' after death me ghost will haunt ya!
Love, faretheewell
You're sweeter, stronger, lovelier,
You're better far than I!
Oh Whiskey you're me darlin'
Drunk or sober!
I've known about the marranos and Isabella and Ferdinand for quite a while - am trying to remember if I learned about it from Harvey, a long time friend who once had a show on pbs not on this exact subject, or earlier.
Did not know until recently about the New Mexico aspect of all this, though.
I am, as most here so far know, a very long ago Catholic now describing myself as without theism (ahem), but am not a total religion basher. Semi-basher, that's me. I don't remember that I as a Catholic child was taught to hate Jews, at least in any concerted way. Too much else going on, re novenas, etc. I remember arguing with a Jewish friend when I was in my later twenties, out of religion but not by many years, that our religions were so close, and she shut me up with her disgust.
I ran across some of the history you tell, Dys, in my avid readings once I got interested in Italy, since much of the peninsula history was affected by people in what is now Spain. Heh, my italian teacher is a Borgia descendent.
Eva wrote:
Set...malaria began in Italy? How did you ever learn that? I grew up hearing my father's tales of having malaria in the South Pacific during WWII. I always assumed it was of tropical origin...like most people, I'd imagine.
Some four or five thoasand years ago malaria was first noticed in the (eastern) Mediterranean area.
Later, Hypocrites wrote of malaria:
History of Malaria
ossobuco wrote:I've known about the marranos and Isabella and Ferdinand for quite a while -
It's better to use the term conversos rather than marranos. Marranos means swine or pigs.
Otherwise, it's like if you were saying "I've known about the pigs and Isabella and Ferdinand for quite a while - "
Also, I know it's an English convention, and I know I'm being nitpicky, but that queen's name was Isabel, not Isabella. I think Isabella came from the English mishearing of her titular name, Isabel la Catolica.
Yeah, I just looked it up in my Spanish dictionary. It comes from the Hispanic Arabic muharrám, which in turn comes from the Classical Arabic muharram, "declared (an) anathema."
Thanks Walter
It just sounds so terrible, though.
Setanta wrote:.... . . Ferdinand was the junior partner in the marriage to Isabella, and most people are unaware that the Conquistadores were fanatics devoted to their Queen, who got their start by slaughtering and expelling Muslims, and then Jews. They (Ferdinand and Isabella) produced a daughter, Joanna,...! ! !
And, FYI, another daughter, Catherine d'Aragona, married Henry VIII -- and since their only surviving child was a daughter, he sought a divorce, and so, eventually, the Church o' England was born.
On malaria in Italy, I remember reading that the presence of mosquitoes and malaria in the lowlands was one of the reasons - besides the obvious reason of defensive siting - for the positioning of the towns on hills.
Francis wrote:
Historians do not agree on an unique meaning for the word "marranos".
That might very well be.
I only did a smaller work about navigation during the times of the conquistadores and thus noticed the mentioning of
marranos in the decribed manner in literature and (secondary) sources.
Well, Jespah came closest to answering my question. Do Jews in Europe today consider "marrano" to be an offensive term?
Eva wrote:Well, Jespah came closest to answering my question. Do Jews in Europe today consider "marrano" to be an offensive term?
I'm not sure, how offensive it was considered in centuries before. (Any source for that?)
As far as I know, it's used as an historic term term today, like in e.g. "Israël S. Révah: Les Marranes, in: Revue des Études Juives 118, 1959, pages 29-77" or "Cecil Roth: A History of the Marranos, New York, 1974" - both written by renowned Jewish historians.
I've never encountered the term "marranos" in New Mexico, really the only term I have heard is "conversos" who in my limited experiece call themselves "chicanos"
And as far as I know, no, it's not considered offensive.
Well, Walter...speaking as an Irish-American, I can't imagine that the Irish, for example, would ever get past it.
Of course, we're always looking for a fight, dontcha know.
