Exactly Why Don't You Believe In the God of the Bible?

I seem to be detecting a pattern. It seems as though a big problem with the Bible and the God of the Bible is that many feel it has not "progressed" with mankind. Is this what you are saying? If so, is there a reason that you feel that God or the Bible should progress with man? I hope I am stating these things correctly. I am very interested in the answers I am getting from everyone.

Can you explain to me why it is that Jesus is not accepted as the Messiah in the Jewish tradition? Is there a specific reason? More than one reason?

He's not the only one, although my parents never raised me up to be a Christian and I was never baptised (as far as I know).

I'd initially say that I don't know a single person in my country who didn't start off being raised as a Christian, but then a recent report says that state schools have been failing to give children the Christian morning worship that the law requires them to have.

At one time I stated that I was no longer a Christian because of how it was forced onto me and because of my idiotic Scriptures teacher whom would shove the same darned story of Jesus' birth, crucifixion and the Pentecost over and over again. After much deliberation, I've kind of realised that this isn't the only reason and was more of a subconscious one at that.

As time passed on and as I matured, I learnt more about science. The concept of God and religion didn't really enter my mind. I didn't really go to Church either, but because I attended a school in which the Assemblys started off with singing Christian hymns and prayers, I guess I got a taste of Christian worship.

The thought of an afterlife comforted me. To think that there was a God up there that would right the wrongs after life was very comforting.

Now that I think about it, I don't think the latter was very comforting at all. The God of the Old Testament righted wrongs during life, as well as after. Now he just lets the bad things happen? And even before, the measures he took were so extreme and seemingly evil. After giving it much thought, you couldn't justify it.

To say that he knows best isn't a good reason at all. Say you were a German living under Hitler. He set himself up to be omnipotent and omniscient too, and in some ways he was. Could you justify the evil acts he did to punish those he didn't like, with the reason, "because he knows better than you"?

Also, science seemed to end up contradicting things in the Bible. Well, that didn't really push God out of the picture because God =/= Bible (God does not equal Bible).

No, it was the logical inconsistences. The fact that you couldn't prove God to be true no matter how much you tried. In the end, I decided those who started up the religion deliberately chose a definition of God that made it near outright impossible to disprove his existence.

And that is true. You cannot disprove God's existence, because of the way he has been defined. How can you say he's not omniscient, if you yourself don't know everything? How can you say he's not omnipotent, if you yourself are not capable of even a fraction of omnipotence? How can you say he's not omnipresent, if you yourself aren't every at once and cannot go everywhere?

It's rather a disingenious definition, when you think about it.

As someone who adheres to the scientific principles as much as possible, I cannot claim to be an outright atheist, because there is not enough evidence to prove that atheism is correct, so I am forced to state that I am agnostic.

Besides, I cannot believe that the concept of God as described by any religion is correct. All religions have changed over the time, their religious texts written by fallible humans that may have had a political agenda behind their motives.

Furthermore, every other God before this Abrahamic God has been false before. What makes this one anymore true than the others? Because there's more followers? Not likely, because the religion is evangelical and calls for non-believers to be converted (whereas the older ones more likely called for non-believers to be killed).

In a way the most popular religions are like a virus (sorry, but I couldn't think up of a better analogy). They were deliberately spread across the world, through human intervention. That does not prove that the God behind this religion was anymore true than the other gods. It just proves that the believers of this God are more virulent in their cause.

Why I don't believe in the God of the bible:

1) The God of the bible appears too eclectic a being to exist.

By this I mean he appears to transform over a period of time as the needs and desires of man change. This is not indicative of one supreme being.

2) Today's vision of the God of the bible has largely been defined by the interpretations of man, and not based upon anything that God has actually supplied us. So even if there were proof that God exists, I doubt seriously he'd be the God everyone thinks he is.

3) The God of the bible is professed to love everyone. Given the fact that Setanta is included within that number, I find that tobe reason for invalidation of such a statement, thereby negating one of the fundamental aspects of this God.

You tell me exactly who or what "the God of the Bible" is MA and I will tell you if I believe it.

I was raised by agnostics, both of my brothers are agnostic. I am an atheist because I find "reality" (ie the physical world) adequate to meet my needs whereas I find "non-reality" (ie the meta-physical world) inadequate to meet anyone's needs.

MA said "I think I told of this before, but it seems to apply here. I had a friend who was once Christian. He became a Buddhist. We were talking one day and I asked him why he switched to Buddhism. His answer really took me aback. He said, "Because the answers in Christianity were just too simple."

Just perhaps your friend was meaning that monotheism itself is simplistic. that is, monotheism answers all questions by "god willed it so" which is on it's face "simplistic" for it answers no questions. Antoher problem I see here is that Buddhism is not, per se, a religion having no gods but, rather, is an "ethic" not unlike Taoism. I'm sure JLN or Asherman will corect my errors in this regard.

Bartikus Wrote responding to mesquite;

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Sounds like as a child...you really wanted and counted on the existence of Santa Clause and the like at one time and was let down. So was I.

I remember the pain involved. It is not an easy thing to remain hopeful when many of life's experiences tell us to be otherwise.

The higher the hope....the greater the potential heartbreak.

Hi Bartikus. Glad you joined us.

I am learning a lot from those that don't believe. I think I might have been missing the point with them before and I am really hoping I can understand their viewpoint much better.

I like the way you stated this. I can completely understand those feelings and not wanting to go through them again. Since this is such an important personal issue, I can imagine the thought of it possibly not being true to some would cause them different degrees of concern.

I don't know if I don't believe in the God of the bible so much as I don't believe in the implied definition of God in the bible.

Like Questioner, I observed God's metamorphosis as I read through the bible. From an early creator who demanded complete obeisance and who had a nasty, destructive temper, to a governor or leader who began to communicate laws to his "chosen" creations, to a suddenly forgiving and loving entity who was trying to save humanity. Maybe this is what Christians call the trinity, I don't know.

Then there's the problem that the bible cannot possibly be literal and without error as language itself is an imperfect form of communication, there are many, many languages in the world, and translation is problematic. Some languages don't have words for some things. The perfect word of God wouldn't be a word at all if it were truly perfect.

And I've never quite gotten past one childhood question. If God made the world, who made God? To be fair, this question would remain without God. It's a fundamentally difficult concept to grasp, that of the universe.

Combined with that is the idea that there is only one true religion. Religion is regional. If there were only one true religion, and all people are equally capable of discerning the truth, why would it only ever be one specific population in one specific region that seems to be the lucky group to believe in the one true religion? If you were born in Saudi Arabia, would you be a Christian? India? China? Why isn't God in those places?

So in short, whether or not I believe in the God of the bible depends on what is interpreted as the God of the bible. I could go on and add that I don't believe in salvation and why, but that would be another thread.

I think that you have misunderstood my implication. I do not believe that the bible was God inspired. I have no idea as to whether there is a God or not. To me, the bible, written by people of their time, is a reflection of the customs, understanding and traditions of those times. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think that this might clarify your query somewhat:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm

Do you think it is God that is changing or do you think it's man's concept of God that has changed?

I am pretty positive you meant this in jest, but it reminds me of a parable (I think it's a parable). The moral was the one that is forgiven more loves more? I am not saying Mr. Setanta needs to be forgiven more or anything like that. He does seem to be one that is more vocal about not believing God is all I mean. But, I am sure God does love Mr. Setanta very much.

JN

As much as I can recall (it was a long time ago) I never had a feeling of pain or letdown over the reality of no Santa. In fact it was probably just the opposite, a feeling of pride and accomplishment in figuring it out. The toys still kept coming, I just knew the source. It was just one more learning experience and another myth put aside. When I figured out that thunder was the sound of lightning and not the old man in the sky, there was no letdown there either.

I think the description of feeling pain by Bartikus over losing the myth of Santa may be the reason many people so desperately cling to religion.

I never had faith in Santa or faith in the Easter Bunny or faith in the Tooth Fairy or faith in the Bible for that matter. Any believing that was done was because of teaching by adults and was easily dropped once reality appeared through additional learning, observation and logic.

Faith is a concept developed to hang onto dearly held beliefs that are not supported by any other means.

Well, either way, what's in the bible shows a changing God. Since your original question was 'Exactly why don't you believe in the God of the bible.' then your above question is rather off the point.

However, to answer your question, you have to assume that god has changed since his apparent 180 from the OT to the NT. Unless man has translated those texts horribly wrong, of course.

Only mildly in jest. God can't tolerate sin. It is therefore a reasonable assumption that he hates it. If he hates sin, he is obviously capable of hate and therefore is likely to hate other things/people.

i don't care much if i believe in him or not, i don't much like him that's for sure, he seems needy and whiny

the old testament god seems like a real prick, don't gain knowledge or i won't like you, kill your son to show how much you love me, oops just kidding, blah blah

i don't really think of god much in relation to the new testament, i think jesus was a pretty decent guy

my biggest problem is organized religion not god and the bible

Hi FreeDuck. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this so fully. This seems to be very common among the posters. I guess the big question then is how do we get back to the real definition of God?

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And I've never quite gotten past one childhood question. If God made the world, who made God? To be fair, this question would remain without God. It's a fundamentally difficult concept to grasp, that of the universe.

Yes, this is probably a tough one for everyone. I was always told God was never born and He will never die. Now, as a child, that was very hard to accept. Now, as an adult, I can accept this because I believe in the divine sovereignity of God. But, try to explain it? You got me there.

I undertand your thinking on this. Completely. However, it does say in the Bible that if one never hears of Christ (I'd have to find the verses) but they look around them and see and believe there is something higher than them, that's good enough for God. Now, that is for those that never hear of any religion at all. As for those that do, they have to make a choice as to the ones they believe. And yes, culture and region has a great influence on everyone.

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So in short, whether or not I believe in the God of the bible depends on what is interpreted as the God of the bible. I could go on and add that I don't believe in salvation and why, but that would be another thread.

Exactly! So, do you have an interpretation of God in the Bible? What gave you that interpretation?

Well, actually, I think it would fit right in this thread so if you want to expand on that, I'd love to hear it. [/b][/color]

Ok, here goes. The idea that one's whole life's judgment comes down to whether they check yes or no in the Jesus box just comes across as ludicrous to me. I have a lot of respect for Jesus and his words and don't accept that none of that is as important as his blood washing away our sins.

All this concentration on believing the right thing in order to go to heaven appears to distract from the purpose of knowing God. Jesus talked about seeking the kingdom of God in terms of this world, not the next.

I took away that the kingdom of God is a state of being and not a physical place and that going to heaven when we die is not a valid goal. If there is an afterlife then there must also be a beforelife, in which case, why come to this one if we already existed elsewhere? It must be on purpose. If God created life, he did so for a purpose, and that must be because there is something to be learned from living. If we spend all of our time on this earth seeking an after life then we've missed the gift of life completely.