Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2006 08:53 am
I had a sales person come by and test my water Friday evening. I really liked the demo, and my salesperson was a perfect gentleman. With the tests it was determined my water was hard. I have limited knowledge about hard water, but I do know something about its effects. I have a friend whose water is a lot harder, and you can see the signs everywhere, so I knew my water wasn't AS bad as it can be. What I thought was fishy, and ultimately made me sign the rejection slip was the pressure to make a decision immediately. I declined signing anything, because I thought it was way too scary to do so. After he left, I felt that I was being forced to draw a conclusion that might not be entirely true. Such as, how much money I am spending on personal care products. Because I was merely guessing, and I was being asked to quess quickly, without having a calculator handy, I realized the end result was greatly exaggerated. I don't spend anywhere near $45 a month in personal care products. A tube of toothpaste (which I buy for no more than $1.50) last me around six months. A bottle of shampoo lasts me three months, a bottle of shower gel last for about three months. Really, the cost per day is so little as to be negligible. I was promised a Chili's gift certificate for allowing this salesperson to test my water. He told me his company wants to promote Rainsoft by word of mouth rather than spend money on Advertising. Still, it was a very major purchasing decision, and I told him that I can't make that decision right then and there, nor in a couple of days. I needed to check my finacial situation carefully to make sure I could afford it. My sales person then said I could sign this form where I could back out within three days, that I could call him up and and just say, sorry I can't do it. Still, this was not okay with me. I thought, what if he's not available, what if I forget, and I call too late. Why is Rainsoft so afraid of a little scrutiny if their product is so wonderful? If it's really as good as they say it is, why do you need to shower a customer with over $5000 worth of cleaning products, etc, and food coupons. Sounds more like a bribe to me. Also, the stay was over long, so I began to feel like the sales person was deliberately trying to wear me down. He came just after 7pm and didn't leave until nearly 10pm. Thank goodness I already had dinner. If I had any idea it would take that long I would have told the lady who called me to set up an appointment, to keep the stupid gift certificate. I even asked her how long it would be and she told me it was designed to take as little time as possible. How the heck is nearly 3 hours as little time as possible? Anyway, I still wanted to look into the product, and found the main WaterSoft website, and little else but tons and tons of complaints, about shady practices, lousy customer service, etc. I also have read a few good reviews, but they seem to be overwhelmed by bad ones, and that doesn't hold well with me. Yes, I know, few people say anything when everything is running smoothly, but then it would seem the people who complain are still complaining months and even years after their problems started, and I can't believe these people would be so stupid that they can't figure out how to connect with the "good customer service" that the company brags about. My sales person was so determined to sell me a system, after I clearly stated my concerns about not being able to afford it, that he called his boss up and tried to find out if there was a demo-used system he could sell me for a lot less. Originally I said I could afford around $50 a month, but I was asked if I could wing $62. I said, I need to think about it. They seem to dislike it when you want to think about it. About this time I was getting annoyed because I felt like I wasn't being unclear when I said "I don't know if I can afford this, I need to take a careful look at my finances." Anyway, after the fact I felt the company could be as shady as an oak tree and as crooked as the Mississippi river. I am glad I didn't sign anything, but still felt really nervous seeing how I was nearly pressured into buying something that I could not afford, and may not even have worked. Like I asked earlier, if Rain Soft is so willing to stand behind their product, and they think it's so great, why do they appear to get very nervous when you say you'd like to think about it, and do your own research? If it really is as stellar and as great as they say it is, it would logically still be great if you look at it carefully. Even if I thought the system was perfect, I still think it's outrageously over-priced, and then all this maintence on top of it sounds like too much work. I live alone, work full time, and do everything for the house, and can barely keep up. Anyone know why my experience left such a sewagey taste in my mouth? Is this an isolated incident? Does Rainsoft even check up on the people they hire to do their selling? When things go horribly wrong do they compensate, or ask you to buy even more stuff? I am still considering RainSoft, though for later. Currently I can not afford it. I don't make enough money.
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2006 11:34 am
The benefits of softened water
The RainSoft approach to in-home sales is a one call close.
The promise of a gift is just to get a salesperson in your home.
RainSoft trains sales people to try at least 5 and sometimes 8 closes.
You mentioned the cleaning products/economics close and the 3-day recision close.
The same pitch is used by insulated replacement window and door in-home sales.
The average price quoted by RainSoft in my area is $6200.00 Shocked

You may get a call from the sales manager with a deeply discounted counter-offer.
It will still be a high price to pay for soft water.

The benefits of softened water are real.
Even people with only slightly hard water will notice a difference when they start using soft water.

* Water heating efficiencies may be increased by up to 29% with gas and 22% with electricity.
* Pipes don't clog due to mineral buildup increasing the plumbing systems life and performance.
* Soaps and detergents lather better and work more efficiently.
* Many appliances last longer, perform better and stay clean longer.
* Soap residue on clothes is reduced. Clothes look better and last longer.
* Soap scum and hard water spots are reduced - less time cleaning.
* Skin and hair rinse better for a cleaner look and feel. What a relief for dry itchy skin!

HTH ~
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 06:40 pm
You made a very interesting observation about complaints concerning this (and all major) water treatment companies when searching on the internet.

It's best to determine if the majority of the complaints come from customers or the competition; and that will say a lot. To find out about a company go to Google and type in the name of the company and any key word like: lair, junk, high pressure, poor service, scam, excellent, good service, etc. See what pops up and go from there.

Bob Villa's web site has an extensive forum that discusses water treatment equipment (softeners and ROs). Do a product name search there. There is also a portion of his web site that talks about water treatment equipment. Even though he is contracted by one company that puts their sticker on another brand of softeners, he describes different types fairly and clearly.

Be informed....

Good luck,
Andy
yangie 00
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2006 12:59 pm
RainSoft/Water Softener Inquiry for H2O_Man
We just had a rainsoft sales expert at home last week and we already received the call from the sales manager with the discounted price. You are correct, the price is still high Exclamation What is a fair price to pay for the system and what system you recommend Question

I really want to do something about it but it's almost a car payment!

Yan
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jan, 2006 04:29 pm
Re: RainSoft/Water Softener Inquiry for H2O_Man
yangie_00 wrote:
We just had a rainsoft sales expert at home last week and we already received the call from the sales manager with the discounted price. You are correct, the price is still high Exclamation What is a fair price to pay for the system and what system you recommend Question

I really want to do something about it but it's almost a car payment!

Yan


On the low end I suggest North Star.
On the upper end I suggest ECOWATER.

Good luck ~
0 Replies
 
Scott P
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2006 10:45 am
We had a Rainsoft rep in the house Monday night. We did notice that our area does have hard water and higher chlorine, so we know that a system would be nice to have.

His first offer was $5,940 for the water and air or $120/mo (term never disclosed)

His next offer was $4,940 for the water only or ($99/mo)

We also would've gotten the useless soap package (literature stated $4,000+ worth of soaps replaced, ugh)

Once we declined the system, he pulled out the old "I'll call my boss about a display model routine.

AQC50 for $2,940 and we still get the soap package (whoopee! Laughing )

He was here for about two hours. He tried several times to close telling us about ROI (return on investment) of 30% (he was speaking to two people with finance/accounting backgrounds). Hard sells really turn the wife and I away, so we still said no.

I started doing some research on Rainsoft and found this great little site.
0 Replies
 
abedelias
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 03:02 pm
Rainsoft, what a scam!!!!!!!!!
Ok so If you are thinking about doing it DON'T Exclamation This is a big act, from the minute he walked into my home I was suspicious, and I had a reason 2 b. The fake phone call he made after we told him we could not afford 110/month, it went down to 68/month, and he was so insistent on us making up our minds right then and there...Then after he agreed to give us 3 days to think about it he still tried to get our Social Security numbers from us, and I did not give them to him, but he also said he needed proof of our house being in our name, so I gave him some Docs with our Loan number on them, and address. Big Mistake! When I got on the internet after he left I found out all kinds of stuff, and decided not todo it, so I called him on Monday to let him know, and he purposely did not return my phone call until Wednesday, so I kept calling, and the supervisors would not help at all!!! I wanted my docs back... Well to make the long story short my docs were returned a week later! Via mail, and another freaking offer for 30/month for this system! Some nerve! So if you want it that bad, you must know that you can get them down to 30/month! Oh yeah the dealer I went thru was LOving Water, in Pearland, Texas! Don't go thru them.... BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE, AND HORRIBLE PUSHY SALES MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 05:22 pm
Have you ever seen the movie "Tin Men"?

http://i.imdb.com/Icons/poster_under_licence.gif
Rent it...


The sales tactics you both ran into are deceptive at best.
These companies should be ashamed!

You can get better equipment for less money without the hassle.
DavidCurry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Aug, 2006 01:17 am
Re: RainSoft Inquiry
bailzzararco wrote:
Such as, how much money I am spending on personal care products. Because I was merely guessing, and I was being asked to quess quickly, without having a calculator handy, I realized the end result was greatly exaggerated. I don't spend anywhere near $45 a month in personal care products.

My sales person was so determined to sell me a system, after I clearly stated my concerns about not being able to afford it, that he called his boss up and tried to find out if there was a demo-used system he could sell me for a lot less.


Most people overestimate that figure. Part of it is the speed with which they go through the list. The other part is at the very beginning of the 'survey' where they tell you what the average family spends. If the average family spends about a hundred a month, in the back of your mind, you assume you do too.

The sales person was very determined to sell you a system then and there for a good reason. If he/she doesn't write a contract during that visit to your home, he/she doesn't get paid. They work on straight commission. If you don't buy, he paid to not make money. (Referring to gas in his car - I live about 110 miles from their office)

Did the salesman let you talk to his boss? If not, he didn't call anybody. They have a price list, and they are allowed to discount a certain amount. In Florida, they now have people for the reps to call who will talk to you and do a price drop for them.

If you want a system, just call the local office and ask to have a rep sent out. Don't bother with the demo when he gets there, tell him you have seen it. Tell them what you were quoted last time, and ask if they can do any better because it's still a bit steep. The next day, when they call to schedule the installation just tell them that you are having second thoughts about it. You'll get a better price.

It worked for me. I bought mine for $3295, cancelled and got it for $1325.
0 Replies
 
hockeyhelmet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 08:10 pm
Our rep just left. He came an hour early, which was not good. Our three kids were still up and we planned for them to be in bed so we could pay attention to the demo. The rep was in disbelief when we declined his "get it now" offer.

We asked for a business card, and he declined saying that no one ever calls for the deal that will cost more.

oh well.
0 Replies
 
Gokuhouse
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 09:04 pm
Rainsoft is the BEAST!
Wow! Am I ever glad that I found this site. I too recently had a Rainsoft salesman demo at my house. We have hard water and we know it, that's why we had him over....

Well, it started off high pressure and ended the same. From the minute he started he was continually joking about how bad our water was....Seemingly joking in the beginning but it didn't end with just a couple comments. He kept telling us that he didn't want to scare us BUT we really do need a Rainsoft system! That was nothing compared to the pressure he put on us to BUY THE SYSTEM TONIGHT OR HE WOULDN'T GET HIS COMMISSION. He actually made us feel bad for telling him no. I just can't believe that we almost bought that thing! I'm sure it would have been a good system, but for $4,000 for just the softener after "calling his manager and hoping that there was a display model left". He told us that it would sell fast. And I'm sure it will when they find a customer with the bartering skills to drop the price where it should be! He pushed us very quickly to answer his questions about what kind of products we use and how much they cost us...He even told US how much they cost in some situations! He kept blaming the soap company for "having" to get us to answer all those questions. He basically told me to put the checks on that "worksheet". I wasn't exactly agreeing with him on some of that stuff, but after he finessed the numbers a little he brought it down to where I thought it was closer....But it didn't matter, it wasn't actually changing the numbers..just in his mind.

When we asked for a business card he said that he forgot them....Well, that's fine, he can forget his business cards BUT he shouldn't have forgotten about bringing along the free gift that we were promised. He even knew what the gift that we picked out was....He made a comment that it was the better choice of gifts and yet he forgot it. He said that he would bring it out the next day and low and behold we haven't received it even by 8:40 PM the next night. So, I would venture to guess that he doesn't plan on bringing it out. I guess we are going to have to follow up with his office on it.

Total demo time = 2 hours!

Another thing about him that really worried me was his absolute disregard for my financial situation. I am not a rich man but he continued to tell me that if I bought this system I would literally save 6 dollars a month from what I was currently spending. I highly doubt that I won't have to buy any soap or detergent or dishwasher liquid or shampoo conditioner or hand sanitizer or any household cleaning products for the next 4 years. He was telling me that I wouldn't have to buy that stuff anymore for a couple reasons. 1.) He said that with all the stuff that we got with it that it would last us about 4 years. 2.) He said that our water would be so much cleaner that we wouldn't have to use nearly the cleaning products that we did before.

We didn't even get to use our own soap in the demo about how bad our water lathers. Now call me crazy but I knew nothing about what kind of soap he was using. For all I know it could have been formulated to lather extra well with clean water and made to lather very badly with hard water. I still would like to see his test again but with our own soap! Now I can't prove anything about that but it just bothered me.

I would just like to send out a big BEWARE warning to anyone that has this company over for a demo. Make your own decisions about it. If you know what to expect from them I'm sure you could work out a good deal. I'm going to price other systems for now. Something in the range of $1,000-$2,000.

I need to give out another piece of advice:
If you feel uncomfortable at any point at all let him know. He will then work on the price for you. Then tell him no. Then he will ask you what you think you can do. Tell him a lower number. He will continue to stick out his hand and say these works "Welcome to Rainsoft". DON'T SHAKE HIS HAND YET. Tell him that you don't see the real money savings on a month to month basis. Come up with a lower number or even better yet make him tell you the lowest price he could ever possibly do. SAY NO! Tell him that you can't do that. Continue this until you have a price point closer to the competition ~$2,000 or less. He isn't afraid to rip you off so you need to be prepared to barter with him. Otherwise don't have them over. Simple as that.
0 Replies
 
woosler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 11:26 pm
Soft Water
After reading this - I'm so happy I went with the ecowater system - I've spent 4 bucks in 4 months for salt - they saved me money on a service call by telling me what to do over the phone and the sales guy was awesome - a traffic accident took out electricity and my system stayed on (like he said) I financed the deal and it was less than I spend on bottled water alone so it was a no brainer for me.
Excellent customer service.
- Family of 5
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 06:06 am
Re: Soft Water
woosler wrote:
After reading this - I'm so happy I went with the ecowater system - I've spent 4 bucks in 4 months for salt - they saved me money on a service call by telling me what to do over the phone and the sales guy was awesome - a traffic accident took out electricity and my system stayed on (like he said) I financed the deal and it was less than I spend on bottled water alone so it was a no brainer for me.
Excellent customer service.
- Family of 5


Cool Yep, ECOWATER systems and customer service are outstanding.
0 Replies
 
KTile
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 08:44 am
How much does a Ecowater system cost? They look great! I would hate to have a salesman come into my home and I dont have all my ducks in a row. I hope they dont have Rainsoft tactics!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 09:07 am
KTile wrote:
How much does a Ecowater system cost? They look great! I would hate to have a salesman come into my home and I dont have all my ducks in a row. I hope they dont have Rainsoft tactics!


There is no one size fits all system. Everyone needs / wants something a little different.
The best way to determine what you need is to have someone come to your home and evaluate your particular situation.

A few things to keep in mind:

It's your home and your money.
You are under no obligation to buy anything from any in-home sales person.

You have the right to cancel a contract.
You have a 3 work day right of rescission on any contract with any in-home sales person.
NOTE: You give up this right of rescission when you buy from an internet dealer.

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:59 pm
H2O Man gave a great answer.

Every home and home owner have different needs, wants and desires. Very often the only way to determine certain values and benefits is to personally handle it. Very often, also, is that many problems are even realized until a professional can evaluate details following tests, inspections and by asking pertinent questions and making various offers showing pros and cons to different approaches.

As with all home improvement projects, there are qualified people and hucksters. Sometimes cutting corners on initial costs can cause further, often, unnecessary expenses later.

Each state has different laws concerning in-house presentations, sales, and cancellation of contracts. A BBB can probably explain those in detail. There may be some exceptions to common beliefs or assumptions. An honest company, though, will never argue that when a custom decides to cancel there would be no threat of harassment, let alone legal action.

Mail-order purchases may put you in a whole different arene when it comes to all of the above. Your water is very serious, so please consider your options rationally and with a lot of Q$A!!

Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 08:24 pm
KTile wrote:
How much does a Ecowater system cost? They look great! I would hate to have a salesman come into my home and I dont have all my ducks in a row. I hope they dont have Rainsoft tactics!


My experience is based on what I've read on the internet and what many of my prospective internet DIY customers tell me. They say Ecowater is very expensive; most often it's over $3000.

H2O_MAN wrote:
The best way to determine what you need is to have someone come to your home and evaluate your particular situation.

You have the right to cancel a contract.
You have a 3 work day right of rescission on any contract with any in-home sales person.
NOTE: You give up this right of rescission when you buy from an internet dealer.


OUCH! Or... true because we internet dealers and our customers work on the honor system.

Also, anyone can find much more information about softeners etc. on the internet from internet dealers than any local dealers' owner or sales people will usually tell you in your home or in their dealership office. Many internet dealers have been a local dealer and must explain softeners to make sales happen.

Consumers, you should ask yourselves why the local dealer wants to come out to your house. The vast majority insist they must and usually will not discuss anything about a softener etc. on the phone; except to make a sales appointment to discuss your water treatment needs.

They'll give you a number of reasons but really, they don't need to look at your plumbing unless the plumbing is not exposed, and to discover that only takes a simple question and your yes or no answer.

They don't need to do water tests if you are on city water or you have recently had someone do them or did them yourself; even if you have your own well. If city water your water company can tell you how hard your water will be. Local dealers could do their water tests to program the control valve when they showed up to install your new softener because the capacity part of sizing a softener is real simple.

Why do they have to install it? Oh yes... they usually say that would void the warranty, well yeah if you melt a plastic part by soldering too close to it but not if you didn't and the thing worked for X weeks/months/years before it fails! What could you have done to cause the failure by connecting the thing to your plumbing? They could ask you questions about the plumbing, the size is not important except to tell them what plumbing connectors they need to be to code.

Sears and other big box stores selling Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool, Mortonsalt.com, North Star etc. sell to DIYers and, all their softeners are made by the company that makes the Ecowater brand. I've been told the Ecowater dealer version can share some of the same parts as those big box store brands.

H2OMan, is that true?

The local dealers' installer guys should have all the plumbing materials they could need in the truck/van and know how to do the simple plumbing involved for a softener installation. So why do they insist in coming out to the house before the sale?

Anyone that tells you they must come out to your house wants to SELL you into signing a contract. Which leads us to...

The right of riscission... It is a federal law and it is to protect a consumer from being pressured into signing a contract to purchase anything from an in your home sales person.

Then after the sale there is the service... Most local dealers will tell you how great their service is and as soon as your softener skips a beat and you ring their phone they're Johnny on the spot with $$ in their eyes.

Local dealers can not compete with internet dealers on price and in many instances will refuse to tell you anything to look for if your softener requires service. They want the phone call but... they really want to run out to your house and charge a service call and then maybe XX dollars per fifteen minutes while charging a fairly high price for proprietary parts.

Local dealers should direct their sales efforts to only those people that want a local dealer to run out ASAP when their softener quits. The rest of the folks needing a softener are DIYers.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 07:25 am
Gary Slusser wrote:


H2O_MAN wrote:
The best way to determine what you need is to have someone come to your home and evaluate your particular situation.

You have the right to cancel a contract.
You have a 3 work day right of rescission on any contract with any in-home sales person.
NOTE: You give up this right of rescission when you buy from an internet dealer.


OUCH! Or... true because we internet dealers and our customers work on the honor system.


The truth works for me. Leave it at that.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:05 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
The truth works for me. Leave it at that.


I like that too, so let's try a bit more truth; you missed answering this....

Sears and other big box stores selling Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool, Mortonsalt.com, North Star etc. sell to DIYers and, all their softeners are made by the company that makes the Ecowater brand.

I've been told the Ecowater dealer version can share some of the same parts as those big box store brands.

H2OMan, is that true?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:27 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
The truth works for me. Leave it at that.


I like that too, so let's try a bit more truth; you missed answering this....

Sears and other big box stores selling Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool, Mortonsalt.com, North Star etc. sell to DIYers and, all their softeners are made by the company that makes the Ecowater brand.

I've been told the Ecowater dealer version can share some of the same parts as those big box store brands.

H2OMan, is that true?


The company that makes the ECOWATER brand is ECOWATER.

ECOWATER makes NorthStar, the systems found at LOWES and others - very few parts are shared.

My suggestion:
Consumers that want the very best available should consider ECOWATER.
0 Replies
 
 

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