Why I Am Avoiding the Religion Forum on A2K

Communist.

Moi???

I will agree with you, Phoenix, on the spinning wheels and vitriol that takes place on the religious threads.

But are the political threads any different?

I hear you, Gus. But I think that there is something qualitatively different between religion and politics. IMO, there is something far more intimate about religion, that reaches right into the heart of each person.

I agree. It's one thing to constantly hear, "You're a stupid idiot because you support Bush," but it's quite another to constantly hear, "You're a stupid idiot because you believe in God."

Re: Why I Am Avoiding the Religion Forum on A2K
Every once in a while I make the mistake of posting in the religion forum, then I regret it because they stay at the top of my "Your Posts" page forever and I can't make them go away!

I even tried to install CyberSitter to block out all of the religious words on A2K, but CyberSitter will not allow you to block the words God and Christian. Interesting that it will let you block the words Allah and Muslim. I guess we know what CyberSitters agenda is.

Religious fanatics are in your face no matter where you go and what you do. It's so annoying.

Politics is "out there". Much of what happens cannot be controlled by any one individual. I have certain strong political ideas. I only traverse the political threads once in a while, because I think that much political argument is mental masturbation.

There is very little that one can do in the larger political scheme of things, unless one is will to devote a large portion of time and effort to a political cause. Since I am not willing to do that, I really don't like to get into political discussions very often.

This paragraph belongs at the end of my last post. Since the new rules of editing, I could not put it there!

I think the religious forum has reached its current state because we know each other too well. We see the same arguments recycled brazillians of times, become a little snippy and it all comes apart. But, we are a bit overly touchy about it, I think. Much of the name calling is simply having fun, since we do know each other's positions already.

edgarblythe- I dunno. I have been finding many of the religion threads becoming very obnoxious. I also am perceiving the "us and them" attitude, which is the exact opposite goal of mine.

As far as the name calling being fun, I am a big believer in really listening to the things about which people joke. I think that there is more than a little bit of hostility in this so-called "kidding". I don't believe for one minute that it is really good natured.

Some of it is and some of it ain't.

THere is an underlying current of they want to put religion in public areas and I want to stop them with the jokes, and that goes with what I said about we know the other side's positions already and so all that's left is the snippery.

I think that this begs the question.... why do people start or participate in the religious forums in the first place? Is is for a civil discussion of religious topic or a place to snipe at others? When one looks at the beginning topic in these threads, they seem to beg confrontation whether they be started by an agnostic, atheist or Christian. I am not ignoring other religions, they just do not seem to start these threads.

Have you ever tried to analyze what is happening from the point of view of what you have characterized as "religious fanatics"? I can appreciate, (although I don't agree) that the very religious perceive the secularists as causing the U.S. to go to hell in a handbasket.

The point is, that we need to live together, if not in friendship, then at least in peace, lest we turn into a country with various groups warring with one another.

Leaving a bad taste in my mouth, as well.

I used to love this section. Lot's of openness and acceptance of each others personal views and beliefs. I've learned a lot here about various religions.

It was once a place where we could feel comfortable sharing our beliefs because we did so with love and acceptance.

That doesn't appear to be the case at this moment. I almost feel like coming to the defense of one side although I normally would have placed myself on the other. Bit of a turn-off.

Just a point, Phoenix that not all of us who post in the religious forums are from the U.S. We have no agenda when it comes to American politics, which is what it seems to boil down to.

Intrepid- I think that you have a very valid point. American politics, IMO, has a lot to do with this change. For years, the secularists have dominated the political scene. Since the current administration, which has seen the strengthening of the power of the radical right, the ultra religious have become much more forceful in attempting to superimpose their agenda on the rest of the U.S.

I must admit that I am as guilty as anyone when it comes to the back and forth snippets in these fora. For me, it is more a sense of defending my religion that criticizing someone else's or trying to impose my beliefs on others. I have a tough enough time looking after my own spiritual wellbeing without trying to control someone else.

For me, I do not enjoy the sniping. I do, however, enjoy some of the humorous bantering that goes on. Case in point is the Christian / Atheist Love Forum. I really like that one. It seems that we all cool down a bit during these times and actually get along.

We do not have to agree with each other, but we should respect each other.....whatever our beliefs.

Phoenix, this thread of yours has made me stop and look into myself..once again.. and I realize that you are correct in your assumptions.

Years ago, I was in the same place that you were. I felt that it was necessary to defend my beliefs. And I defended them, much to the annoyance of the people around me.

After a time, I realized that no defense was needed. I felt comfortable enough, in "my own skin", that it really did not have to matter about what other people thought of my beliefs.

I am sympathetic to what you are saying.. I apologize for my combative stance on religious threads which certainly adds to the dynamic you are talking about.

The key phrase in your post is "I believed A2K was the world in microcosm.". This is exactly correct. The division and bitterness you see on A2K religion posts are very similar to the real world.

In the real world we avoid open conflict, not by reaching any sort of agreement, but by separating ourselves into groups of people who think as we do, especially during worship.

I come from a very religious background and religious ideas are still important to me. Biblical references.. ideals of human value, compassion, morality are all things that I believe are part of a full intellectual life.

However I can't avoid the anger i feel toward a very public part of modern American religion. In these discussions I would like to be able to express this in an appropriate way.

To this end I feel that some of the discussions-- especially with Momma Angel-- have been very healthy even though they include quite strong disagreement. I respect that fact that Momma can ask for peoples opinion and take quite angry responses.

I ask you to read some of these threads looking past emotionally strong combative posts to what I believe is real discourse taking place underneath.

In short, I think there is valuable dialog happening in the religion forum. I feel that in addition to strong emotions, including anger, there is real dialog-- the sharing of naturally contentious ideas.

I understand what you are saying, Pheonix. I will try to keep this in mind, especially in the religion forum.

But conflict and emotions are part of what happens when people with very different ideas, backgrounds and beliefs come together to discuss something as personal as religion.

The solution in the world to have a "pleasant" religious discussion is to restrict yourself to one type of Church. Even in the real world if you bring a Quaker and a Southern Baptist together in a religious context for very long, sparks are going to fly. This is why we have separate churches for Quakers and Baptists.

I don't think having a "Mormon Spirituality" forum is very interesting. The fact that people get together to talk, even as sparks fly, is a good thing.

Don't miss the interesting, valuable dialog that happens underneath the conflict you see.