United Nations to ban religion?

@Randall Toliver,

What a load of codswallop.. or bullshit.. or whatever is to most appropriate.

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No one has yet to provide convincing arguments in defense of religion

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Randall Toliver wrote:
to bring mankind back to profection
I assume you mean "back to perfection". So when exactly was he "perfect" ?

Well,if you don't believe the Bible, this would be meaningless; but here goes:
"After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day." (Genesis 1:31, after the creation of Adam and Eve)

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@neologist,

"Very good" does not equate to "perfect". Presumably a complacent God was too lazy to do any work on the 7th day, which explains the futile flood, and ultimately the rise of Hitler ! Wink

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I think the definition of a perfect man is up for debate maybe, however if scripture is to be believed, it does suggest that Adam was created to live free of both death and sin, if he so chose to do so

Romans5:12 wrote:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

it is also worth a ponder over why no human was able to provide a ransom sacrifice, and it was necessary for God to send his own son to "repurchase" us.

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@Smileyrius,

This:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned . . .

is not a sentence in English, it is a sentence fragment. Therefore is an adverb which denotes consequence--no consequence is elaborated. Of course, ambiguity and obscurity are hallmarks of scripture, which actually aids exegetics. You can claim scripture means damned near anything.

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

"Very good" does not equate to "perfect". Presumably a complacent God was too lazy to do any work on the 7th day, which explains the futile flood, and ultimately the rise of Hitler !

Coupla things: I prefaced my remark with the disclaimer "if you don't believe the Bible, this would be meaningless." So, if you don't believe, then you would not be swayed by the Bible's claim that God is perfect. (Deuteronomy 32:4, 2Samuel 22:31, Psalms 18:30, etc). Therefore, his work should be perfect. Also, note the 7th day has not yet been declared as over. So, those who believe the bible might wonder: if God is resting, from what is he resting?

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

This:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned . . .

is not a sentence in English, it is a sentence fragment. Therefore is an adverb which denotes consequence--no consequence is elaborated. Of course, ambiguity and obscurity are hallmarks of scripture, which actually aids exegetics. You can claim scripture means damned near anything.

Fight fair, Set. This is from a longer passage. If you shorten Smiley's quote from Romans 5:12, it reads ". . . sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned . . ." The remainder of the passage explains, among other things, that Adam's sin is the proximate cause of death for all men. Since Adam was declared perfect ("good") before he sinned, only a perfect man could substitute for him - to serve his sentence - as it were. Jesus' death provided that release.

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@Smileyrius,

Smileyrius wrote:

I think the definition of a perfect man is up for debate maybe, however if scripture is to be believed, it does suggest that Adam was created to live free of both death and sin, if he so chose to do so

Romans5:12 wrote:
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

it is also worth a ponder over why no human was able to provide a ransom sacrifice, and it was necessary for God to send his own son to "repurchase" us.

Adam was perfect. Only a perfect human could substitute for him.

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@neologist,

Don't give me that fight fair bullshit, i know the rest of the passage. In the King James version:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

There is still no consequence alleged--it is a sentence fragment, and the obscurantism is typical of scripture. The rest of your reply is irrelevant.

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@Setanta,

Reads better here: (Romans 5:12-13) " That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. 13 For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law. "

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@neologist,

It is still a sentence fragment--it doesn't say what is why. You know, i've noticed a tendency on your part to go for a translation which fits your exegesis. I guess you don't see the irony in that.

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@Setanta,

I could use, and don't mind using any bible. But the New World Translation is a good deal more readable, IMHO.

Regardless, it's hard not to conclude that Paul is referring to Adam's sin as the precipitating factor in mankind's ills.

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@neologist,

Yes, but the other day you used a quotation from the King James version, and i strongly suspect that the particular exegesis you wish to promote plays the leading role in the version you choose.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Yes, but the other day you used a quotation from the King James version, and i strongly suspect that the particular exegesis you wish to promote plays the leading role in the version you choose.

You're right. I'm not sure where that was; I often use the KJV to avoid the objection, "But that's your Bible". If someone can show me where that was, I will provide the corresponding text from the NWT for comparison.

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@Cyracuz,

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FRUITCAKES LIKE YOU DO.......YOU COMPLETE & UTTER NUT BAG!!.
UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE OF COARSE THEN YOU'LL BLEAT LIKE A LITTLE BITCH - JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE - SICK!!!!!.

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@LACUTUS,

Cyracruz may be wrong and he may be right; but whatever he is, he is a respected member of this forum and is in no way deserving of your abuse

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@neologist,

Relax, neologist. lacutus is just being a good Christian. Wink

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@edgarblythe,

I don't spell his brand of christianity with capital c.

He seems more like fungi than fun guy.

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@diagknowz,

Do not be misled, They can and will ban religion. They are tired of religious wars.

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United Nations to ban religion?

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