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"Strength and Honor"

 
 
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:42 pm
This saying (probably fictitious) is heard in the film "Gladiator" starring Russel Crowe. The inference is that it is some kind of Roman army motto or exhortation. Can someone translate "Strength and Honor" into Latin for me?
Thanks!
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 23,329 • Replies: 13
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George
 
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Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 01:09 pm
Vires et honor
-or-
Vires honorque
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chris455
 
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Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 01:32 pm
Thanks George,
May I ask, are these the only way to phrase this? Could decus be substituted for honor?
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George
 
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Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 01:54 pm
Great question.

The only way? No.

Vis could be substituted for vires. Vis has more a sense of force or violence.
Decus also means honor. It connotes dignity.
Honos is a variant of honor. It connotes reputation and esteem.
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chris455
 
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Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 07:02 pm
So, if I chose to use decus, then which is correct?

vis et decus?
vires et decus?
viribus et decus?

Thank you for all your help George-
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chris455
 
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Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 07:55 pm
Anyone?
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rufio
 
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Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 08:40 pm
If you're asking about cases, than it would all be nominative, unless you mean it to say something like "of strenght and honor" or "for strength and honor". If it's just "strength and honor" than it would be just the way George said.
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George
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 08:31 pm
Given those choices, I'd vote for
Vires et decus
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tr00don
 
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Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:05 pm
@chris455,
It is most likely not a fictitious expression. In Romanian, a romance language spoken in Eastern Europe, an almost identical expression is (still) in common use today: "Sănătate şi virtute!", which literaly means "Health and virtue!" Notice how "strength" and "health", on the one hand, and "honor" and "virtue", on the other hand, have similar meanings in this context. About two thousand years ago, what is now Romania was known as Dacia. Dacia has been under Roman occupation from AD 106 to cca. AD 271 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Dacia). Two Roman military legions have been stationed there during this time, Legio XIII Gemina and Legio V Macedonica.
DrewDad
 
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Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:19 pm
@tr00don,
Russell Crowe has stated that he got the phrase from his high school motto or something like that.
tr00don
 
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Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:32 pm
@tr00don,
However, I would like to speculate that the expression may have been successfuly passed down the generations due to it being a wordplay. The Latin words for "force" (~ "strength") and "virtue" (~ "honor") are very similar, so my guess is that the original expression may have been something like "VIRIBUS (ET) VIRTUS".

Update: Amazingly, this Latin expression existed as such and it was still in use much later than the end of Roman rule in Europe. The motto "PAR VIRIBUS VIRTUS" translates in English as "Valour equals strength" and it was on the coat of arms of a historical family in England.
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tr00don
 
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Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:33 pm
@DrewDad,
Right, but how was the motto chosen?
DrewDad
 
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Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:54 pm
@tr00don,
Quote:
CROWE: Uh-huh. I went to Ridley, 'cause I was [snort!] I was looking for something, you know, instead of just saying, "goodbye". [giggle] Something that felt gladiatorial… military… you know, something that sort of, and felt part of the time. And so I uh, I uh, I remembered that, that um, school motto and I converted it, and I said it to him in Latin. And um… he sort of raised an eyebrow, and he took his cigar out of his mouth and goes, "what's that mean, then?" I said, uh, I said, "Strength and Honor," and he goes, "Say THAT." [Russell mimicked Ridley's movements while describing this scene. The cigar, raising the eyebrow, inhaling the cigar smoke, blowing it out, Ridley pointing at him and telling him to, "say that."] - Inside the Actors Studio
tr00don
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 03:36 pm
@DrewDad,
Thanks. I meant, it would be interesting to know how the school chose that motto. I also found this:

"Strength and honour" came from me saying "forza et honorum" to Ridley. -- R. Crowe
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