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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
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Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 02:34 pm
Well, I didn't follow those details of the arguments, mostly because they seemed to me to be a lot of sound and fury over very little. I could have been wrong in that judgement, and if you wish to point out an issue to me I will followup on it.

My impression is that okie readily acknowledges the concensus view of some warming in the past century. I'm also aware of the anomolous trends in the data, prominently including the cooling that occurred in the 1950s thru early 1970s, possibly a result of the then fast-increasing SOX emissions. They are, as you know reflective in the atmosphere, reducing solar warming. We reduced these concentrations rapidly in the 1980s with new restrictions on auto and factory emissions. Given all the many factors involved, ranging from solar to earth orbital, other constituents in the atmosphers, and the not fully measurable effects of CO2 removal by green plants and the oceans, and other variables as well, I don't see much benefit in arguing about small and local variations - even if these arguments are supported by linear regression approximations. None of these issues really sheds any light on the exaggerated claims of accelerating warming, and none of it is effective in silencing the doctrinaire types on both sides of this contentious issue.
View Profile McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 04:18 pm

Hi George, I lost some details when the PM facility disappeared.

Can you please contact me or Tak by e-mail? I'll put my address on my Profile, which you can access by clicking on the name.
0 Replies
 
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Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 05:01 pm
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/hadcrut3gl.txt
2005 0.463 0.376 0.493 0.536 0.480 0.512 0.532 0.503 0.507 0.513 0.494 0.371 0.482

2006 0.296 0.443 0.385 0.357 0.338 0.443 0.434 0.488 0.417 0.481 0.441 0.536 0.422

2007 0.632 0.520 0.441 0.472 0.374 0.377 0.401 0.370 0.409 0.364 0.267 0.201 0.402

2008 0.050 0.192 0.445 0.267 0.278 0.312 0.403 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.278

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Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2008 05:41 pm
That's pretty conclusive I must admit.
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Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:26 am
Not that I think this to be THE solution.

But it's quite interesting to watch what can be done if only wanted.

http://i38.tinypic.com/o9k3o6.jpg
(via Science Daily, August 6, 2008)

On August, 23rd the InVentus Ventomobile competed in the Aeolus Race in Den Helder (Netherlands)

http://i37.tinypic.com/e6zux4.jpg
Official website: http://www.windenergyevents.com/

In this first edition of RACING AEOLUS©, an event that is unique around the world, the teams were challenged to sail straight into the wind, solely driven by the power of wind.


On a three kilometre track five teams from different universities and research institutes from all over Europe were racing - and the Stuttgart team won.
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Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:26 am

http://i34.tinypic.com/rsemnq.jpg
The first and second in the race

http://i36.tinypic.com/svoz9w.jpg
On the dike in Den Helder
[Photos via Spiegel: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34569.html#backToArticle=574303 ]



Related video @ spiegel-online: http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-35029.html

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Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:30 am
And when there's no wind, what happens?
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Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:39 am
On one day of the weekend, there wasn't enough wind ... for three 'cars'. Wink

They've got, however, batteries on board (I should have posted more infos above Embarrassed ) but no wind-powered engine or turbine can run without wind (and no normal car without diesel or petrol).
Quote:
The design is free and the only restrictions are adherence to safety and technical rules. The WPV may carry an empty battery which can be charged during the race. Outside dimensions: length ≤ 4m, width: ≤ 2m. Maximum height of the complete vehicle is 3.5m. Maximum rotor area 4m2. The maximum speed equals (more or less) the wind velocity. E.g. wind force 4 = 20 to 28 kilometres per hour. The participants are Technical University Risø (Denmark), Energy research Centre of the Netherlands (ECN), Center for Renewable Energy Sources (Greece), Fachhochschule Flensburg (Germany), Technical University Kiel (Germany), Technical University Stuttgart (Germany).

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Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 04:21 pm
All along I've been telling you we should invest in thermonuclear fusion reactors >

Quote:
.......Edward Teller demonstrated deuterium/tritium (D/T) inertial confinement fusion (ICF) via the reaction D + T → He4 + 14.2 MeV neutron here, on Earth, at more than full scale way back in 1952. Many called this ICF demonstration the "hydrogen bomb" because Edward needed a fission device to heat a capsule of D/T to the 200-million-degree ignition temperature. However, laser-initiated ICF research achieved >50x liquid D/T density at temperatures of 200 million degrees more than a decade ago. Although the U.S. is withdrawing (again) from the European Union's magnetic confinement ITER project in France, the single shot/day Nd:glass ICF National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) is nearing completion. Design studies funded by the Department of Energy (DoE) for Prometheus ICF with krypton-fluoride (KrF) laser or heavy ion (HI) ....


http://alum.mit.edu/news/WhatMatters/images/sun_233x170.jpg

> that's how the sun burns - how much more natural can you get?
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Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 05:31 pm
Is it alright for sunbathing?
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View Profile Foxfyre
 
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Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 05:52 pm
There's a fellow down in the Socorro area who has been experimenting with a vehicle similar to this. (This one is in Australia.) I thought it interesting that the caption for this says that theoretically, this vehicle can travel six times the speed of the wind? Wind storms out here can easily be 30 to 40 mph sustained with gusts much higher. That would sure be moving on:

http://www.treehugger.com/Wind-Powered-Greenbird.jpg

Quote:
Last week, in the post "Six (Or 7) Ways To Power A Vehicle With Wind" I left out a super-fast land yacht now waiting for perfect weather in Perth to try to set a world record in wind-powered land-yacht speed (didn't even know there was one of those, did you?)

Ride Like The Wind, Greenbird
Engineer Richard Jenkins has built the Jetson's/Forumula 1 version of those wind-powered vehicles right now racing the beaches at Race Aeolus 2008 in the Netherlands. Jenkins' craft, named Greenbird, now has a sponsorship deal with U.K.-based Ecotricity and sports its logo, and Ecotricity's managing director will ride along when the wind and the weather gets good enough near Perth for the record-breaking attempt (the previous 1999 record is 116.7 miles per hour).

Vertical sailing wing, rather than a turbine
Instead of a turbine, either vertical or horitzontal, Jenkins' craft has a rigid vertical wing like an aircraft's wing, which theoretically allows it to travel at six times the speed of the wind. Jenkins told the Guardian:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/another-wind-powered-speedster.php


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Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 11:43 pm
The example you posted, Foxfyre, unfortunately ended last (see my links above) in that race. I could imagine that the advantage of the some of the other vehicles is that they can be driven not only in very windy weather.
View Profile Foxfyre
 
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 03:27 pm
Dang. You mean it doesn't go 180 mph?
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 03:51 pm
Might be. (The current world record is a bit less than 120 mph.)

Bu I suppose, since not many 'normal' cars do 760 mph like done during the last world record attempt ...
View Profile okie
 
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 04:22 pm
I think 180 might be possible WITH the wind, on some days in Oklahoma, if there is a flat enough stretch of road.
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 04:25 pm
......if you meant not "flat stretch of road" but "downhill at precipitous incline", then you might get 200mph....
View Profile Foxfyre
 
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 04:37 pm
It snows sideways in Oklahoma. The downhill thing might not be necessary.
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Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 04:46 pm
The "downhill thing" is always necessary Foxy.
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Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 03:08 pm
My dear Spendius - you should review your understanding of "necessary" vs "sufficient". But I am the bringer of great news: the solar airplane is here:

http://media.economist.com/images/columns/2008w35/solarimpulse.jpg

Quote:
With the wingspan of a commercial airliner, the two-man Solar Impulse (pictured above) is designed to climb on solar power to almost 30,000 feet during the day, and then gently glide on thermals, uplift and battery power down to 6,000 feet at night—repeating the procedure for several days at a time.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/techview/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12011734
View Profile okie
 
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Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:36 pm
Perhaps some of these inventions provide some levity to the discussion, but I believe these inventions could evolve into something rather significant, given time, refinement, and breakthroughs in regard to certain aspects of their design. For example, I think before the Wright brothers, the idea of actually flying in an airplane was also laughed at and ridiculed. Many inventions, in their initial and most crude forms, have been ridiculed as being useless and doomed to failure.
 

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