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Can it be so simple?

 
 
Cyracuz
 
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 07:22 am
I am thinking about the relationship between matter and spirit. In science it is referred to as matter and anti-matter. Something that has the opposite attributes of matter.

Seems to me that matter is always degenerating, striving by itself to become its purest form. All the components of something that was once alive will, at the moment of death, start to return to their original states. Spirit is the oposite. If we use the example of a flower:

A seed takes root and becomes a flower. The seed contains a spiritual energy that manipulates all the matter it comes into contact with, and transforms it into this organism. When this spiritual energy dissappears the flower dies, and all the different substances that were its body will again degenerate, separate and become earth, stone, air, all these things that were before the flower.
This is the way of all things. All living organisms in this world are molded and constructed by the spirit they contain. That is my theory. Any comments?
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thethinkfactory
 
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Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 08:19 am
I think your concept of comparing anti-matter with spirit is wrong-headed.

1) If that were so - every body that had a spirit woudl annihilate and become nothing.

2) I am not sure as though quarks are degenerating.

3) You have confused two conceptions here: Matter and anti-matter - and Aristotles concept of potentiality and actuality.

In your flower example the 'spiritual energy' of the flower is it's potential which becomes actual when it becomes a flower. But if this potential were anti-matter - as soon as it reached it flowerness it would not degenerate - it would annihilate (Following Einstiens E = MC2). However, in reality - for every particle of matter that came in contact with its spirit (in your concept) it would annihilate and the flower would never come to be.

I think what this potential really resembles is energy. Thus there is matter (actuality) and energy (potentiality) - but the real question is - is energy is non-material how does it move material?

This is why quantum physicists have come to call gravity a 'virtual particle' so that is makes sense that is moves particles around.

TTF
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 04:28 pm
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word antimatter. I was thinking of something with attributes completely oposite of matter. Energy, as I see it is also matter, only in another form. They are the same in different states.
Maybe what I am talking about is purpose. The thing that is the soul of a human being, or of a simpler creature, a horse maybe... I think I need to think on it some more...Smile
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val
 
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Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2004 05:57 am
Cyracuz
Something with attributes completely oposite to matter?
I dont understand.
I think that you are defining that "something" but what it isn't. I mean, that "something" would be characterized by having no mass, no mouvement, no dimensions ...
What you say is: spirit is all that matter isn't. But what?
If I didn't know what a lion was, and asked you, would you answer that a lion is something that does not fly? Or does not breathe under water?

About the seed and the plant. There is no mystical energy envolved in the process. A seed, as TTF pointed, is a potential plant. It can be eat by the birds, or to dry due to lack of water. Then, the seed never becomes a plant in ACT, only in potence.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2004 10:49 am
Hehe.. If you ask me what a lion is I can only explain using terms that are familiar to you. This goes to show how limited language is.

That's my point with the plant. It can be eaten, or it can dry out. It can also burn if it is set fire to. It is exposed to energy, and destroyed. But the plant also has the means to safely absorb energy, and so it grows. What I am asking is: What force organizes matter into dna strings and enables it to absorb other energies and other matter to grow? When you talk about a seeds potential I do not think you fully understand where I am aiming. This potential originates somewhere. Where?

My body is formed by my spirit. To sustain my body I need to feed it more matter, wich it converts to energy. I am dependent on heat also, wich my body absorbs.
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val
 
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Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2004 07:45 am
Cyracuz

Potential originates somewhere. Where?

I can only answer by saying that any property of a living entity is an adjustement to external conditions. There is no force to organize matter in dna strings, or at least I don't see the need of it. You use the word "matter" like raw material, inert and waiting to be mould. I see everything as a process. Matter being nothing more than the way energy appears in precise conditions of space and time.
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Cyracuz
 
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Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2004 10:00 am
Val, if the properties of a living entity is an adjustment to external conditions, then why does not a dog and a cat who is born in the same house have the same properties? I agree that external conditions are a factor. In fact I agree with everything being a process also. But I think there are elements in play that we have failed to recognize. You say that matter is nothing more than the way energy appears in precise conditions of space and time, and that is also similar to my own thoughts. It has no will of its own, and is only subject to the forces of the universe. But how then does it evolve to become complex living organisms? Where is this purpose, or potential originating?
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