God, Existence and the Human Condition

"It is an embarrassing statement to have to read. "

Well, it sure is a good thing we are all entitled to opinions.

I think you're being sensitive and dramatic.

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Stuh, for me part of the fun of a discussion is that your view point may not be clear to everyone from the start, but as the discussion goes on everyone has a chance to better understand you. I think after your slight revisions of your points I can no longer disagree with them, but I can still disagree with the way they were initially worded.

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Stuh505;
When you say that the only reason for believing a God in the first place is to explain how our universe came to be ......I agree with you entirely.....but don't you think that your added
position "because we don't KNOW how it could have
existed for all time" would be better put by saying
that "we don't UNDERSTAND how."...is more to the point.? An infinetely continuous time/space is well beyond our comprehension, and why shouldn't be ?

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God does exist. You are God. Each of us are Gods of our perceptions.

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Lordregent52 wrote:

Etruscia, I concede that existence can be dull, adn that many things in life are ugly, but the inherent complexity and awesomeness.... it is the particular idiosyncraties of the human mind that cause us to notice the ugly and the boring. May suggest an excercise? Hold up your hand in front of you and more your fingers slowly. Now think about that. Think about how amazingly coherent and synergistic a system is required for you to be able to do that... and beyond that, for you to be concious of it. That, my friend, is what I mean by romantic.

Yes, romance predates human recognition of it, and yes, it did exist without a mind percieving an ideal. I just mentioned moving one's fingers, but I could easily have said the fins of a fish, or the wings of a bird or an insect, or the cilia of a protozoan.

Romance and idealism are not the same. Idealism is the practice of making an effort to see the romance and beauty. It, therefore, is a creation of the human mind, but romance itself is not.

Of course, this is all purely my opinion, a metaphysical belief. I don't pretend to offer any facts to back it up beyond my own gut instinct.

Damn well said, Lordregent52 and poetic, I might add. It's congruent with my idea of a god not separate from nature and subjective. I'm tired of the word god being highjacked by the fundamentalists as if the only definition is a literal, prosaic one.

I've just started reading this post, but it's nice to know there are some new viewpoints here. A belated welcome to A2K, Lordregent52.

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coluber2001 wrote:

Lordregent52 wrote:
Etruscia, I concede that existence can be dull, and that many things in life are ugly, but the inherent complexity and awesomeness.... it is the particular idiosyncracies of the human mind that cause us to notice the ugly and the boring. May suggest an excercise? Hold up your hand in front of you and move your fingers slowly. Now think about that. Think about how amazingly coherent and synergistic a system is required for you to be able to do that... and beyond that, for you to be concious of it. That, my friend, is what I mean by romantic........

Damn well said, Lordregent52 and poetic, I might add. It's congruent with my idea of a god not separate from nature and subjective. I'm tired of the word god being highjacked by the fundamentalists as if the only definition is a literal, prosaic one.

I've just started reading this post, but it's nice to know there are some new viewpoints here. A belated welcome to A2K, Lordregent52.

just to interject a little note of cynicism;

If you could not lift up your hand, and move your fingers, you wouldn't be here to marvel at how amazing such a simple act is.
Actually, it is not really 'amazing' or 'romantic', but simply what happens, if life is going to continue, and become more complex over eons of time; if it doesn't happen, life stops (as it has done for so many species over so many years!).

[lets give reality a little credit, and leave supernatural allusions out of it.]

{but then, lets hang on to the 'poetry'! Cool

}

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coluber, lordregent -
nice to not feel as alone with my ideas about the complexities of nature speaking convincingly about a designer.

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In your questions i can honestly say that not all things HAVE to make sense must you inquere all that you do not know can things just left be? Even Satan believes in GOD he fears for he knows that there is exsistense well that all i have to say

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Snood
The designer is your evolutionary being. Your mind gives a design to everything you experiment.
About a divine designer I never forget Voltaire's joke:
"How wonderful God provided me with a nose, that allows me to put my glasses".

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If your implying to leave the question well enough alone and go with explanations given by religions in existence right now, it is not right for everybody. It is just being part of the unwashed masses, who havnt realized that what they are believing in is just a guess.

If we didnt inquire(the word i believe you meant) into things we didnt know, there would be absolutely no progress.

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haha, well put, Etruscia!

The answer is: Smile

God doesn't exist, so god must have been created by the human mind.

haha I know that's really arrogant, frank and stuh, and you hate that because you say there's no way to know and I agree, but let me counter with this:

I flip a coin and trap it under my hand. Then I guess which face is up, H or T. Now I rant and rave on an internet forum about whether I'm right in thinking it's heads or tails. And then I look and I was right. If I had made the statement,
The answer is:
It is heads.
, would I have been right (if it actually was heads)?

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binnyboy wrote:

haha, well put, Etruscia!

The answer is:

God doesn't exist, so god must have been created by the human mind.

haha I know that's really arrogant, frank and stuh, and you hate that because you say there's no way to know and I agree, but let me counter with this:

I flip a coin and trap it under my hand. Then I guess which face is up, H or T. Now I rant and rave on an internet forum about whether I'm right in thinking it's heads or tails. And then I look and I was right. If I had made the statement,
The answer is:
It is heads.
, would I have been right (if it actually was heads)?

Anyone making a guess MAY be correct.

I have no problem with that at all.

My problem is with people who state guesses as facts.

Asserting without qualification there are no gods...like asserting withoug qualification that there is a God...is not, as you put it, arrogant.

It is silly.

And when someone refuses to acknowledge a guess as a guess (as you did in your example, by the way) and then INSISTS that the guess is correct in the face of no evidence (or conflicting evidence)...then it goes beyond silly.

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binnyboy, just to clarify, i dont put a guess forth eitherway. I jut put the opinion poll up as a way to see other peoples opinions. Im more inline with Franks ideas.

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binnyboy
You say "God doesn't exist". But God is a word. As a word it exists. Now: what does that word mean? This is the problem.

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Nothing is a word too.
Can nothing be said to exist? Maybe... but don't expect frank to agree with you.

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God, Existence and the Human Condition

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